Detox is more than a liver story—and it is not a juice cleanse. Dr. Gregory Kelly of Qualia Life explains how clearance pathways work together, why mobilizing stored chemicals is not the same as eliminating them, and the thinking behind Qualia 2-Day Detox.
Dr. Gregory Kelly, N.D., is Chief Product Officer at Qualia Life, a naturopathic physician, author of Shape Shift, and former editor of Alternative Medicine Review.
Detox is more than a liver story—and it is not a juice cleanse. Dr. Gregory Kelly of Qualia Life explains how clearance pathways work together, why mobilizing stored chemicals is not the same as eliminating them, and the thinking behind Qualia 2-Day Detox.
Expect to learn why detox skepticism is warranted, how Dr. Kelly thinks about cumulative stress and chemical exposure, what liver biotransformation and elimination mean, why his formulation includes a between-meals binder stack, how sleep and the glymphatic system enter the conversation, and what Qualia’s small symptom-questionnaire study can and cannot establish—and much more.
Dr. Kelly discusses his company’s Qualia 2-Day Detox product. Product descriptions and health claims are his views, not independent verification or medical advice; the small study discussed used self-reported symptom questionnaires.
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Episode Timestamps:
[00:05:34] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Hey, how are you, [00:05:35] Mike?
[00:05:35] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Good. I apologize for the slight delays there. Zoom was not letting me [00:05:40] in, and I exited and went back and now it works, so we're all good. [00:05:45]
[00:05:45] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Good. Good.
[00:05:45] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Just turning my phone off here. Awesome. How are you doing?
[00:05:49] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Good. Do [00:05:50] you want me to wear headphones or is this good without on?
[00:05:52] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Oh, it doesn't matter to me.
[00:05:53] Dr. Mike T Nelson: It, it, it sounds all right on my end. Does [00:05:55] it sound okay on your end?
[00:05:56] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yes. Yep.
[00:05:58] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Perfect. Um, yeah, thank you [00:06:00] so much for doing this. Did you have any questions beforehand? I got the product and everything you guys sent [00:06:05] too, so appreciate that.
[00:06:06] Dr. Gregory Kelly: No, no, this is, um, this is the first of, uh, [00:06:10] about 13 of these I have scheduled.
[00:06:11] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Oh, wow. You're a busy man. [00:06:15]
[00:06:15] Dr. Gregory Kelly: I, I told marketing they could schedule one a week, so they have.
[00:06:19] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Oh, there you go. [00:06:20] Nice. Um, yeah, my good buddy, Dr. Dan Parte, said to say hi too, so.
[00:06:24] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Oh.
[00:06:24] Dr. Mike T Nelson: I've known Dan [00:06:25] for many years. He's an awesome guy.
[00:06:27] Dr. Gregory Kelly: What part of the country are you in, Mike?
[00:06:29] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Uh, [00:06:30] I am in Minnesota. Yourself?
[00:06:32] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Um, I'm normally in [00:06:35] San Diego area, but I'm in Costa Rica right now.
[00:06:37] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Oh, nice. You're just hanging out for fun [00:06:40] in Costa Rica or...?
[00:06:41] Dr. Gregory Kelly: I, um, there's an ayahuasca retreat down here that [00:06:45] Qualia does. Um, like, I've done guest speaking here-
[00:06:48] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Okay ...
[00:06:48] Dr. Gregory Kelly: once or twice a year, [00:06:50] and now I teach a class or two here in addition to-
[00:06:52] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Oh, which one are you at?
[00:06:54] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Rhythmia. [00:06:55]
[00:06:55] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Oh, nice. Very nice. We did, um, ayahuasca a couple years ago [00:07:00] with a real small, uh, practitioner, Nadine, at Combo Casita [00:07:05] a couple times in Costa Rica and, um, yeah.
[00:07:08] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Turns out you drink five [00:07:10] glasses of ayahuasca, that'll, uh, make you think about shit.
[00:07:13] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Sure. I did a [00:07:15] lot,
[00:07:15] Dr. Mike T Nelson: so. I would... Which I would not recommend people do that. I just [00:07:20] showed up and she's like, "I don't know. Try another one." I'm like, "Okay, you're the [00:07:25] expert. I don't know what I'm doing." So, yeah. Oh, cool. Very nice.
[00:07:29] Dr. Mike T Nelson: And you're [00:07:30] good for about an hour, is that right?
[00:07:32] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Sure. Yeah.
[00:07:32] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Okay, perfect. Um, yeah, it's pretty [00:07:35] informal, so I'll record a little, uh, intro, outro afterwards and, um, yeah, and [00:07:40] just go ahead and get started if you're ready.
[00:07:42] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Sounds great.
[00:07:43] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Perfect. [00:07:45] Awesome, and welcome to the podcast, doc. How are you?
[00:07:48] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Good. It's great to be part of your, your [00:07:50] podcast and speak to your audience today, Mike.
[00:07:52] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And [00:07:55] before we started, you said you're, you're in- you're doing this, taking your time away from beautiful [00:08:00] Costa Rica to be with us, so I appreciate that.
[00:08:02] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Sure. My pleasure. My pleasure. [00:08:05]
[00:08:05] Dr. Mike T Nelson: So I... Usually, when I hear the word detox, in all honesty, I [00:08:10] usually run screaming for the hills in the opposite direction.[00:08:15]
[00:08:16] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Mm-hmm. And when they first, uh, sent me a note about the idea [00:08:20] of detox, if it would've been from, like, anyone else or any other companies, I usually just... [00:08:25] 'Cause it's always the same thing. It's... You go back in time to the, even the old, [00:08:30] what was the first one I ever saw? The Master Cleanse. What was it, like, maple syrup and cayenne [00:08:35] pepper, and I don't know what all.
[00:08:36] Dr. Mike T Nelson: There, it just seems like detox tends to conjure up, [00:08:40] like, the craziest stuff known to man. But when they actually sent the product, I [00:08:45] was like, "Oh, this looks like someone actually put a lot of thought [00:08:50] into it." And the thing that kinda changed my mind years ago, which ironically was when I was in Costa Rica with, [00:08:55] uh, Dr.
[00:08:56] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Brian Walsh, and he was giving a talk on different detox pathways, [00:09:00] and I was like, "Oh, so of course, this is a, a real thing." And [00:09:05] obviously, it's a thing the body does all the time, and it's more complicated, [00:09:10] has multiple pathways, and it's not as simple as just drink a s- a [00:09:15] celery shake. So what made you guys think to go kind of down the [00:09:20] detox pathways?
[00:09:21] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yeah, um, a few... There'd really [00:09:25] be a few core reasons, but one is, um, like a big part of the goal at Qualia [00:09:30] is to make products that we really wanna take individually, and so this, this would [00:09:35] highly qualify. Um, and, and often what triggers that is that we're [00:09:40] dissatisfied with what we have access to buying on the market and feel like we would wanna put something together [00:09:45] different to take.
[00:09:46] Dr. Gregory Kelly: So our, our CEO and founder, um, his brother, [00:09:50] me, um, and a few other people, that was part of the driver for it. Um, part is that, [00:09:55] like you said, um, detox, cleanses, these types of [00:10:00] words are thrown around really loosely, and o- often are now, like, devoid of any [00:10:05] meaning that's, that's relevant to actually mapping to what the body's trying to do [00:10:10] to keep us healthy.
[00:10:11] Dr. Gregory Kelly: And a, a big part of what we use as, as a [00:10:15] determination to move a, a new product forward at Qualia is this idea of, [00:10:20] okay, is this a- an area that there's a lot of interest in, which there is. Whether the interest is, [00:10:25] um, misdirected or not is maybe more of the question. And then do we think we can bring something [00:10:30] to the world that would be a, a better contribution there?
[00:10:32] Dr. Gregory Kelly: And, um, you know, your skepticism is [00:10:35] noted and- ... worthwhile, and it's part of the reason that we felt like Qualia really [00:10:40] needed to dive in and bring something to the, the market that would have a more [00:10:45] scientific foundation to it.
[00:10:47] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah, that's great, 'cause in, on the over [00:10:50] 400 podcasts I've done, this is the first one on detox anything.
[00:10:54] Dr. Mike T Nelson: [00:10:55] Um, and related to that, like maybe you could just briefly explain, [00:11:00] is there any- Maybe testing's not the right word, but I think [00:11:05] indications of who may need to do more of a [00:11:10] detox than someone else, or is it maybe even now just sort of falls into a general health [00:11:15] thing because, you know, the environment we're living in is unfortunately more polluted than ever?
[00:11:19] Dr. Mike T Nelson: And [00:11:20] especially I think of recently with the air pollution with a lot of the wildfires and [00:11:25] stuff. Like, I've, in the last, man, like four years, [00:11:30] I've never seen more high levels of particulates in the [00:11:35] air at all in my entire lifetime. And, um, the first time it's ever happened to me w- was [00:11:40] in Toronto a few years ago.
[00:11:41] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Went out for a run, didn't think anything of it, wasn't on my [00:11:45] phone, was doing some filming there. Come back and halfway through the run I'm like, "Man, [00:11:50] I, I, I somehow I must be so out of shape. Like, this feels horrible." And I'm just, like, hacking forever. [00:11:55] I walk in and the place we're staying at, people are like, "Well, what are you doing?"
[00:11:58] Dr. Mike T Nelson: I was like, "Oh, I just went for a run. It was [00:12:00] horrible." They're like, "Oh yeah, the air pollution is, like, super high because of the wildfires." [00:12:05] And the next two days, like, my HRV was absolutely, like, destroyed. Um, so I think it's [00:12:10] becoming more of a, a thing unfortunately just from the environment we live in. [00:12:15] So is the question, is there some indication where this product might be more useful for other [00:12:20] people, or does it just kinda fall in as a general health thing for almost everybody now?[00:12:25]
[00:12:25] Dr. Gregory Kelly: I, I would say more the latter than the former.
[00:12:28] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:28] Dr. Gregory Kelly: But, like, uh, we'll [00:12:30] kinda go into the former first. So, um, you know, way back, you know, so my naturopathic [00:12:35] doctor, um, started practicing in '96, '97, [00:12:40] um, did... took classes in environmental medicine that, you know, the, the [00:12:45] biotransformation phase one, phase two- Oh, very
[00:12:47] Dr. Mike T Nelson: cool.
[00:12:47] Dr. Gregory Kelly: the big, big parts of that. Um, they were just really all [00:12:50] coming online through, um, Institute of Functional Medicine at the time.
[00:12:53] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:54] Dr. Gregory Kelly: And, um, [00:12:55] and the environmental medicine doctors would've treated, like, a subset of [00:13:00] patients that often had multiple chemical sensitivities, right? Their, their system had been so [00:13:05] overburdened that, you know, even if they scented something like, you know, at a gas [00:13:10] station, you know, the scents of pumping gas or an air freshener in a car, they [00:13:15] would immediately have symptom, symptoms.
[00:13:16] Dr. Gregory Kelly: So it was super clear the connection for them. Um, most [00:13:20] of us, us it's not the case that, um... Think of, um, [00:13:25] toxins, chemicals as one of several different things that we could [00:13:30] lump together in the category of stress, right? So that could also include, like, lack of [00:13:35] sleep, social stress, um, you know, nutritional [00:13:40] inadequacies- Um, circadian rhythm disruption, all kinds of things [00:13:45] could be classically thought of as in that stress in addition to like the psychological stress most [00:13:50] of us relate to.
[00:13:51] Dr. Gregory Kelly: And when I was a kid in the, the late '60s, my [00:13:55] siblings and I got a game. It was called the, the, the Last Straw at the time. So for listeners, [00:14:00] picture a plastic camel with a bucket on each side, and you'd spin a wheel, maybe it was [00:14:05] green, which meant that your team had to put one green straw into the bucket.
[00:14:08] Dr. Gregory Kelly: The other team would spin, maybe it was red, they put a [00:14:10] red, and you went back and forth, and at some point, someone would put the last straw in and the, the back would collapse. [00:14:15] So health is a lot like that game, right? The different colors are a different category of, [00:14:20] of s- of stressor, right? Chemicals are one of them, and all of us can [00:14:25] carry a certain amount of a burden without the back breaking.
[00:14:29] Dr. Gregory Kelly: We don't know where, where [00:14:30] that is, and we never know how c- how many straws are in our basket [00:14:35] until it collapses, and our health is what then tells us that, you know, something just big caused it. [00:14:40] Um, and we're often pretty good at identifying that cause. Maybe it was, maybe it was [00:14:45] like an exposure to a chemical, but chances are that if the bucket was emptier [00:14:50] when we had that exposure, the back wouldn't have collapsed.
[00:14:53] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Does that make sense?
[00:14:54] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Mm-hmm. [00:14:55] Yep.
[00:14:55] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yeah, so because of that, we always wanna do everything we can to keep the straws out of our bucket. [00:15:00] And so something like the Qualia two-day detox, think of that as a way to lighten the [00:15:05] burden. So for me, I don't have any r- reason to believe that I have symptoms [00:15:10] that are being caused by some chemical toxicity or something else that would be [00:15:15] improved by detoxification, and my goal is not to wait till then for my health [00:15:20] but to always make sure I'm doing everything I can to keep my...
[00:15:23] Dr. Gregory Kelly: to manage my bucket [00:15:25] in a, a prudent fashion so that it never gets close to the breaking point. [00:15:30]
[00:15:30] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Awesome. Um, related to lifestyle, and then we'll get into the supplement [00:15:35] formulation and how it works, what are some things that you would pick [00:15:40] as top things to be wary of? Like I'm [00:15:45] always thinking of some things we can and cannot do too much with.
[00:15:48] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Like some of the [00:15:50] athletes I work with, the baseball game is not gonna be canceled because the air quality was poor, [00:15:55] right? So there are certain things you just can't change, sometimes professional related where you live. [00:16:00] Um, but there's other things you probably can change, like, you know, consuming water out of, you [00:16:05] know, plastics or the food you buy, things like that.
[00:16:07] Dr. Mike T Nelson: So on the things you can [00:16:10] control, what would be some of the top things you would put on your list to do?
[00:16:14] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yeah. [00:16:15] So, um, I think one of them would be canned foods, right? In order to prevent the [00:16:20] rusting, there's usually some kind of an epoxy resin that would have- Mm ... um, you know, compounds [00:16:25] that our body struggles to get rid of in those.
[00:16:27] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Um, anything with a strong scent, [00:16:30] that's like we're, what we're smelling is chemicals. So if it's, you know, like peppermint oil, that's, [00:16:35] that's fine. Our system has e- evolved with that. If it's a, like a chemical [00:16:40] scent, like an air freshener that we might use in a car that's more of a, used to mask [00:16:45] odors, then that's probably something that might be contributing to our burden.
[00:16:48] Dr. Gregory Kelly: So scent would be a [00:16:50] big one for me. If, if we're smelling something and, um, and it's a strong [00:16:55] smell and it's not like a rose, then it's probably contributing to, to adding things [00:17:00] into the bucket. Um, so that would be a, a second. Um, you know, there's [00:17:05] then lots of, of, um... Like any time we buy new furniture, [00:17:10] right?
[00:17:10] Dr. Gregory Kelly: They're all treated with things to make sure that- Mm ... they're not as flammable, right? Mm. So [00:17:15] those, those, those are fat-soluble chemicals, right? That we breathe in [00:17:20] and inhale. Um, you know, so the dust in our home is another. Um, in, in [00:17:25] general, no matter like, you know, the forest fires [00:17:30] aside, most places we live, the outdoor air is less polluted than the inside air [00:17:35] where we live.
[00:17:35] Dr. Gregory Kelly: So, you know, keeping our, our windows open, using plants like even [00:17:40] ficus, which is a pretty, you know, um, easy to get plant, does a really [00:17:45] good job of cleansing the air for us. So, um, the more we can make [00:17:50] our environment a little bit, um, more suited, then the better [00:17:55] So lo- lots and lots of things that we could do ultimately.
[00:17:58] Dr. Gregory Kelly: But, um, like you mentioned, [00:18:00] the goal is to focus on the things that are manageable for us, not on all the things we [00:18:05] may, may hear, you know, some extreme biohacker being able to do in their life, 'cause [00:18:10] their life and their context of it are probably different. So, you know, for me, [00:18:15] um, I like to think of the idea of low-hanging fruit.
[00:18:17] Dr. Gregory Kelly: What, what are the, the things I can do that will give me [00:18:20] the most bang for the buck? And that's like making sure my water supply is cleaner, [00:18:25] um, a- avoiding canned foods 'cause we're gonna get resins, epoxies, [00:18:30] microplastics that way. Um, and then, you know, doing my best to, you know, [00:18:35] get outside. I, I fortunately, whether I'm here in Costa Rica or home in San Diego, live in places [00:18:40] that I can get outside and be by the beach and get really clean air multiple times a day.[00:18:45]
[00:18:45] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. That's great, 'cause it seems like especially with the [00:18:50] internet now, everybody wants to focus on the most extreme [00:18:55] thing that may or may not be applicable, I guess. Like, you see someone [00:19:00] avoiding a certain thing, but then all the other behaviors you just kinda [00:19:05] shake your head at. Like, the, rarely does physiology solve [00:19:10] for just a single thing.
[00:19:11] Dr. Mike T Nelson: And again, if you had a high risk, like, yeah, doing things like avoiding canned goods and things [00:19:15] like that can, can make a difference, but it's, I think the, the aggregate of all the smaller [00:19:20] things you do, not looking for the one silver bullet that's gonna change everything. If [00:19:25] I just implement this use glass only or whatever the thing [00:19:30] is, it's probably gonna help, but not solve all of these things.
[00:19:34] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yeah. [00:19:35] And I, I think, um, like, one of the interesting studies that was done... So there, there's been a [00:19:40] lot of biomonitoring studies. Basically, you know, government bodies, National Institute of Health [00:19:45] measuring, um, how many chemicals are stored in a, in a person, [00:19:50] right? They'll maybe measure 200 people and track them over time, and what's clear in all of [00:19:55] those studies is that there's more stored in all of us today than there were when they started those studies- Mm-hmm
[00:19:59] Dr. Gregory Kelly: 10
[00:19:59] Dr. Mike T Nelson: [00:20:00] years
[00:20:00] Dr. Gregory Kelly: ago. So we're, we're in general doing, um... We're running a race where we're [00:20:05] falling further and further behind each year, for the most part, right? And it's because while we have great [00:20:10] systems to eliminate these things, you know, our liver bio-transforms things, um, our [00:20:15] kidney excretes things that are water-soluble, our, um, you know, our colon, [00:20:20] um, can get rid of things that were released in the bile salts.
[00:20:23] Dr. Gregory Kelly: We can breathe out some [00:20:25] things. Um, blood flow, circulation, lymphatic drainage, all of these play parts in it. [00:20:30] But we... Those things can be working really well, and it's just the world that we [00:20:35] live in is a little bit more challenging for them to keep pace in than the world of probably [00:20:40] even our, our grandparents would have been.
[00:20:43] Dr. Gregory Kelly: So we don't have to [00:20:45] change the world, but having some strategies to maybe dampen down that, [00:20:50] shift our capabilities up a little bit, and all of a sudden, you know, we're stringing together days and [00:20:55] weeks where we're winning the race instead of consistently losing it. And that's really what the game's about.
[00:20:59] Dr. Gregory Kelly: It's not [00:21:00] about, like, um, mad fin- mad sprint after mad fin- sprint, and I'm gonna just do [00:21:05] this crazy thing for two weeks to start the new year and think that I've s- I've solved everything. [00:21:10] It's being more consistent on a weekly basis or a monthly basis and just stacking some wins [00:21:15] together.
[00:21:16] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah, I like that.
[00:21:17] Dr. Mike T Nelson: And I think it's also, from a behavioral [00:21:20] change standpoint, it's much more realistic also, right? Yeah. And we [00:21:25] know that those, those small changes are gonna aggravate to better over time, [00:21:30] too. But it's, it's just like training. It's like, yeah, the small changes you make in training and [00:21:35] nutrition and sleep add up over time, but that's not nearly as sexy as [00:21:40] whatever the latest thing to be scared of, I guess.[00:21:45]
[00:21:45] Dr. Mike T Nelson: You had mentioned, uh, water. One of the questions I had was, I [00:21:50] guess, what are your general thoughts on that, and anything that you would recommend? Because it seems [00:21:55] like there's simple things like getting a... Like, I have a, a Yeti container [00:22:00] that's a metal one liter I carry with everywhere and use that to refill.
[00:22:04] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Seems to be better, at [00:22:05] least in my opinion, for the environment and reduction of plastic. I'm not drinking out of plastic. [00:22:10] But I looked at when we were trying to figure out for water filtration for our house, [00:22:15] man, it gets confusing really fast. Like, you could spend tens of [00:22:20] thousands of dollars on just water systems, and what we ended up doing, [00:22:25] we just ended up getting a gravity-fed Berkey filter and called it good.
[00:22:29] Dr. Mike T Nelson: [00:22:30] I don't know if that's a good medium or not. I have no disclosures with any companies, but I'm curious on your [00:22:35] thoughts about water.
[00:22:36] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yeah, I mean, I, I don't over com- I, I travel a lot, so for me- Mm-hmm ... yeah, [00:22:40] I, you know, like, in some locations I'll just have a Brita or something similar, right? That's using a [00:22:45] charcoal to get rid of- Yeah
[00:22:46] Dr. Gregory Kelly: like, the majority of things. Um, you know, so I, I [00:22:50] don't think we need to be fanatic about it. Um, you know, I'll... At, at my [00:22:55] home, I have a, um... So not here where I am in Costa Rica, but in my San Diego home, I [00:23:00] have something that creates a little vortex
[00:23:02] Dr. Mike T Nelson: and,
[00:23:02] Dr. Gregory Kelly: you know- Hmm.
[00:23:02] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Like a structured water type thing or?
[00:23:04] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yeah. [00:23:05] So that, I use that. Like, I'll, I'll take water and then I'll put it out in the sun, [00:23:10] um, like on one of the balcony of my home for a couple hours, and then I'll pour it into this carafe [00:23:15] and, and, you know, it adds structure to it. And, um, you know, I, I don't really worry that [00:23:20] it's perfect water, but it's...
[00:23:21] Dr. Gregory Kelly: it tastes a lot better, which, you know, to me- Hmm ... is a good indicator [00:23:25] that, that the water quality has improved. Doing these couple simple things of just adding [00:23:30] a, maybe a little life back into it with the energy of the sun and then the vortex, um, through [00:23:35] this, um... It's kind of like a magnet you put at the bottom of it and it vibrates it.
[00:23:39] Dr. Gregory Kelly: So [00:23:40] creates a, a nice whirlpool in it. But I don't think we even have to do all of that. Like I said, just a, like, you know, [00:23:45] I'm, um, comfortable drinking with a Brita or something else that's doing the, the majority [00:23:50] of the work, getting out things with a, a good filter. [00:23:55]
[00:23:55] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah, because it, if you look at just in terms of volume, [00:24:00] you actually over your lifetime consume a fair amount of volume of [00:24:05] water probably compared to other things.
[00:24:07] Dr. Mike T Nelson: So that was the reason I was like, "Eh, [00:24:10] this is, you know, some steps you can do there to make that probably better in terms of total [00:24:15] potential load that might be a, a lower hanging fruit."
[00:24:18] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yeah. What's, what's typically the [00:24:20] case, it's not... Those aren't the things, like when someone does crash with multiple chemical sensitivity, [00:24:25] it's usually because they got exposed to something big and noteworthy.
[00:24:29] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Um, [00:24:30] right? And so these, these other things are, um, [00:24:35] not unimportant, but I think we can bog down in them. Like the, the, [00:24:40] like I, um- was a kid in the '60s and can [00:24:45] remember people running behind the trucks spraying DDT, right? 'Cause they, creating distinct [00:24:50] spray, right? Um, you know, I, I known a few people that, that told me they did that as a kid.
[00:24:54] Dr. Gregory Kelly: I, [00:24:55] I think I just missed that window 'cause it was a little bit, um, too young. I remember seeing it- ... [00:25:00] but I don't remember doing it. That would be, like, not a smart thing to have that, right? Massive exposure. [00:25:05] So, um, you know, like pumping gas as an example. There's gonna be some benzene [00:25:10] typically there. Like, I'll just step away from where the nozzle's going into my [00:25:15] car to get away from where that is.
[00:25:16] Dr. Gregory Kelly: So a lot of it isn't doing super complicated things, [00:25:20] it's just being aware that, you know, where there's chemicals around I wanna do a little bit of distance or, [00:25:25] um, you know, practice what would be called the precautionary principle. A, a- assume [00:25:30] that these things may, may have some consequence and so limit my exposure to them.
[00:25:34] Dr. Gregory Kelly: But [00:25:35] I, I don't think being neurotic about it is the solution either.
[00:25:39] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. [00:25:40] And you'd mentioned bigger exposures. Is there any of those that people should be kind of on the [00:25:45] lookout for to try to avoid that they may not really know about? I mean, [00:25:50] to the top of my list I think that's becoming more of a known issue [00:25:55] now is, like, exposures to different types of molds and things like that where, you know, [00:26:00] I've worked with a couple people who've worked with their physician, you know, post mold exposure.
[00:26:04] Dr. Mike T Nelson: [00:26:05] And man, they... We got them back to, you know, being pretty good and they're, they're [00:26:10] doing well now, but it was... I was kinda eye-opening for me to [00:26:15] realize, wow, it really whacked their system in a very [00:26:20] negative way from both health and performance standpoint.
[00:26:23] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yeah. Mold would be super [00:26:25] big and super problematic.
[00:26:26] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Um, you know, a lot of things that would be stored in a garage or [00:26:30] basement, um, you know, fit that, right? They would have strong smells we- and warnings right on them. [00:26:35] And then, um, you know, often, uh, things we put on our s- our skin, right? Our [00:26:40] skin can absorb a lot, and, um, you know, a lot of things in common cosmetics [00:26:45] would have plasticizers and other things to make them be absorbed better.
[00:26:48] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Mm.
[00:26:48] Dr. Gregory Kelly: So, um, [00:26:50] you know, I, I think often it's just l- looking for the, the obvious clues. Like, there's chemicals in this thing [00:26:55] that I don't understand what their names are. I'm gonna... I probably wouldn't swallow that, so maybe I wanna keep [00:27:00] away from breathing it or putting it on my skin.
[00:27:04] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Related to [00:27:05] skin, do you have any thoughts about sunblock, just better versions to look for or just [00:27:10] in general?
[00:27:12] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Um, I mean, I, [00:27:15] I don't have super strong opinions, and I think we always need to think in terms [00:27:20] of our susceptibility to- Mm-hmm ... sun. Um, you know, the most important thing is not [00:27:25] to burn. If, for me, I can usually navigate the not to burn part with, [00:27:30] um, you know, s- like even just putting, um, non-UV [00:27:35] protection things, um, like co- like coconut oil- Hmm
[00:27:39] Dr. Gregory Kelly: on my [00:27:40] skin. Um- Wow. You know, I don't go in the sun, though, at noon here in Costa Rica. [00:27:45]
[00:27:45] Yeah.
[00:27:45] Dr. Mike T Nelson: I was gonna say.
[00:27:47] Dr. Gregory Kelly: So it's all, like, um... [00:27:50] I, I think the, um- [00:27:55] Like we often throw... Like, a [00:28:00] challenge with health things is there's always many villains-
[00:28:03] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Mm-hmm ...
[00:28:03] Dr. Gregory Kelly: right, that we can point [00:28:05] to, and then we, we leave people really almost incapacitated when we say, "Well, [00:28:10] like the sunscreen's bad, but you need sunscreen to be out in the sun," and maybe I have to be out in the sun [00:28:15] because my, you know, child's playing soccer at noon.
[00:28:17] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Um, and so then I would say just use the [00:28:20] sunscreen, right? Like, do other good things around it, but always, um, [00:28:25] it... I think there's often al- almost more damage from the belief and the, [00:28:30] the, um, the over-infor- or oversaturation with [00:28:35] information giving us so many confusing messages. So I, I know one of the things I would have done with [00:28:40] patients is just uncomplicated.
[00:28:41] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Like, you know, like as an example, um, [00:28:45] you know, there's organic blueberries, there's blueberries. You know, sometimes you [00:28:50] can get both, sometimes the organic, sometimes you can only get those. My [00:28:55] sense is that non-organic blueberries net-net are healthier than [00:29:00] if you instead chose like blueberry flavored candy.
[00:29:02] Dr. Gregory Kelly: So let's not- Mm-hmm ... overcomplicate it. Do the [00:29:05] blueberries. If, if they're organic ones you can get, like fine, but... So I, I think [00:29:10] we tend to sometimes, um, almost listen to too many different [00:29:15] experts, read too much different information, and I've met, um, you know, [00:29:20] friends, colleagues, patients that become so narrow in what they feel like they can do and how they [00:29:25] can live their life.
[00:29:26] Dr. Gregory Kelly: I don't think that's the point
[00:29:28] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah, the sun, the reason I [00:29:30] was asking about sunblock too is that it seems to be a very, you know, uh, polarizing topic. And [00:29:35] to me, I'm like, we already have an issue of people not being [00:29:40] outside, uh, enough, but then you talk to people who are like, "Well, if I go [00:29:45] outside, then the sun is too much, so I have to use sunblock, and I heard the sunblock is toxic, so [00:29:50] I'm not gonna go outside now."
[00:29:51] Dr. Mike T Nelson: I'm like, "But you're kinda s- in my opinion, solving for the, [00:29:55] the wrong thing, right?" So try to do your best, find a workaround. You know, I do a lot of kiteboarding, [00:30:00] so I'll wear UV rash guards and things like that. So I'll use clothing whenever [00:30:05] possible to keep the sun off, partially because I'm in the water all the time, sunblock doesn't stay on real well.
[00:30:09] Dr. Mike T Nelson: But, [00:30:10] you know, areas that are exposed, like my face and other areas, like I'm gonna use sunblock [00:30:15] because I'm gonna burn like a r- into the Red Lobster by day two if I don't, which is gonna be [00:30:20] much worse- Yeah ... than worrying about, you know, some potential effect of sunblock at that [00:30:25] point too.
[00:30:26] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yeah, and I think it, it, to me it gets back to that simple analogy of the, [00:30:30] the camel and the buckets, right?
[00:30:31] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Mm-hmm. Yes, does sunscreen have some amount of toxin? Yes. [00:30:35] It, at most it's a really, um, lightweight straw, at most, [00:30:40] right? So there, there's definitely heavier straws most of us can be worrying about, and getting a, a [00:30:45] bad sunburn would be a much heavier straw.
[00:30:47] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And [00:30:50] anecdotally, some of these conversations I've had are from people on the beach [00:30:55] who are very overweight, do not look very metabolically healthy, with like [00:31:00] three beers in their hand worrying about their sunblock.
[00:31:03] Dr. Mike T Nelson: And I'm like, eh, probably a good [00:31:05] question to ask, but I d- I don't think sunblock is gonna be your number one issue, [00:31:10] you know? There's probably other things we can, we can work on, and sunblock would probably not be number one I would put [00:31:15] on my list. Got it. Um, [00:31:20] so when you were formulating the, the product, what was the thought [00:31:25] pattern to it?
[00:31:25] Dr. Mike T Nelson: 'Cause I notice there's, uh, different components. It's not just a simple, [00:31:30] you know, just take this celery seed and you're good to go in the morning.
[00:31:34] Dr. Gregory Kelly: [00:31:35] Yeah. So, um, I think going back to when the phase [00:31:40] one, phase two, and then subsequently the phase three detox became popular-
[00:31:43] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And you can explain a little bit about what [00:31:45] that is for people who are
[00:31:45] Dr. Gregory Kelly: unfamiliar- Yeah.
[00:31:46] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yeah ... with those
[00:31:46] Dr. Mike T Nelson: pathways.
[00:31:47] Dr. Gregory Kelly: So the, um, these are [00:31:50] like what would be thought of as liver biotransformation processes. So [00:31:55] phase one is taking things that, they can be things we get in our diet, things we breathe, [00:32:00] but things that are in general fat soluble and making them more... I'm [00:32:05] sorry, taking the, those compounds and then attaching something onto them.[00:32:10]
[00:32:10] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Um, and th- this all happens in the liver. The consequence of that is [00:32:15] sometimes that the result of the phase one biotransformation is more toxis- [00:32:20] toxic than the starting material.
[00:32:21] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Mm.
[00:32:22] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Right? So like alcohol would be an example. [00:32:25] Alcohol's not great, but it can be a source of energy. But we, we metabolize alcohol into [00:32:30] aldehydes, and then aldehydes, um, are much more damaging.[00:32:35]
[00:32:35] Dr. Gregory Kelly: And so- That these processes are natural, right? They're, it's a [00:32:40] two-step sequence that our body uses, and the first one to start the biotransformation, and then the [00:32:45] second, phase two, turns that, that result from phase one into something that's [00:32:50] water-soluble and so can be removed in our urine through our kidneys.
[00:32:53] Dr. Gregory Kelly: So it can take [00:32:55] things that are, like chemical toxins that may be fat-soluble, and [00:33:00] allow them eventually to be made into a complex that can be removed from the body. And phase [00:33:05] three is that elimination phase that either happens through what we're urinating out through the kidney or [00:33:10] what's being released from the liver and bile and then going into the colon and coming out in our stool.
[00:33:14] Dr. Gregory Kelly: [00:33:15] So phase one, phase two, and then phase three were fancy ways to say, "Let's support the liver [00:33:20] in doing its job better." And let's, like, I don't know the... [00:33:25] Like, one of the things that's tends to be, um, true in scientific progress [00:33:30] is the, the more we, we understand the mechanisms behind something, the more we have this [00:33:35] illusion that we can control it.
[00:33:36] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. "
[00:33:36] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Oh, if we really understand phase one," which is like [00:33:40] 250 different enzyme systems, that, "Oh, if we give more of these nutrients, um, [00:33:45] then we'll, we've got it figured out." And it's just doesn't really work that way. Um, what [00:33:50] would be also true is go- dating back, um, there was a, a woman named [00:33:55] Hazel Parcells that practiced in, um...
[00:33:58] Dr. Gregory Kelly: I think she was in the New Mexico [00:34:00] area originally, but eventually in, um, outside of Vegas. But would've [00:34:05] practiced and, and educated a lot of the old-timers that became naturopaths or [00:34:10] herbalists that would've been my teachers, right? She started in the '50s. She was poor health. Um, [00:34:15] and a lot of her work used herbal extracts to help detoxify [00:34:20] people.
[00:34:20] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Um, the old-timers that taught me, whether taught by her or other [00:34:25] people that were like-minded, ultimately, uh, started almost all patients [00:34:30] on liver and digestive tonic herbs.
[00:34:32] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Hmm.
[00:34:33] Dr. Gregory Kelly: They didn't know, they never even had heard [00:34:35] of phase one or phase two or phase three, never mind how to micromanage them. They [00:34:40] had just evolved to understanding that if they gave things like burdock root and dandelion root and [00:34:45] ginger root and some of these other, um, botanical extracts to patients, [00:34:50] and in the meantime, did things to support bi- bioflow like artichoke, um, [00:34:55] and things to help the colon and the kidneys do their elimination functions, [00:35:00] um, like cranberry for the, the kidneys as an example, or like a, a [00:35:05] mild, um, eh- W- would it be like, like we use a, a Cassia [00:35:10] species from, um, Ayurvedic medicine in the Quiet Two-Day Detox to [00:35:15] help promote a, a little bit better elimination for the stool.
[00:35:17] Dr. Gregory Kelly: If we just do those things, get the liver [00:35:20] to work better, improve digestion a little bit better, and then open up the channels of [00:35:25] elimination, we tend to see good things happen over time. So, um, you know, the [00:35:30] whole phase one, phase two, the, the func- Institute of Functional Medicine loves that, adopted it. [00:35:35] I remember being taught it when I was in naturopathic school.
[00:35:37] Dr. Gregory Kelly: It was brand new at the time, and then, you [00:35:40] know, companies created products around it. And, and none of those things are bad, and [00:35:45] there's these old or time approaches that have stood the test of time, worked [00:35:50] despite not knowing any of that biochemistry.
[00:35:53] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Very cool. [00:35:55] And I think in the product you then have it split up into, uh, inside you've got these little, [00:36:00] little dividers that says like step one, step two, [00:36:05] step three.
[00:36:05] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Do you wanna kind of walk us through how that would work? So if [00:36:10] someone is getting it, exactly what do they do? 'Cause I know some of them you can take with a meal, [00:36:15] some you probably need to be fasted, things of that nature.
[00:36:17] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yeah. So we, with these four packets, we think of [00:36:20] them as morning, um, with meal, between meals, and before [00:36:25] bed-
[00:36:25] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Mm
[00:36:25] Dr. Gregory Kelly: packets. So those are the four. Um, the morning will have a lot of things in it that [00:36:30] promote lymphatic drainage and circulation. So nattokinase, which is a, an [00:36:35] enzyme from, um, originally identified in a, a Japanese soy product that, that has a, a lot [00:36:40] of activity to break down, um, more of the things, the sludge [00:36:45] in our circulation.
[00:36:46] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Hmm.
[00:36:46] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Um, there's something called lymphosylct, and there's a few other [00:36:50] botanicals in it that have been used, a- again, dating back, um, hundreds of years [00:36:55] for lymphatic flow. And the lymphatic system, the reason circulation and lymphatic are [00:37:00] so important for detoxification is that things have to get from where they're stored all [00:37:05] over our body to the liver to be, like, packaged up so they can be escorted [00:37:10] out ultimately by the kidneys and the, the colon.
[00:37:13] Dr. Gregory Kelly: And so lymphatic [00:37:15] drainage and circulation are super important in whole body systemic detox. But [00:37:20] really, they've fallen out of the package for in, in [00:37:25] almost all cases because of the infatuation with the liver being the, the major [00:37:30] organ of detox. So, so that's, that, that would be the morning packet is built on [00:37:35] that.
[00:37:35] Dr. Gregory Kelly: We wanna start the day improving circulation, doing things to support [00:37:40] lymphatic drainage. Because we, in a sense, we wanna... If you think of like a drain in your, your [00:37:45] sink or your tub, we wanna unstick, unstick the, the drain and get the flow [00:37:50] going again before anything else happens. So that, that would be the morning.[00:37:55]
[00:37:55] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Got it.
[00:37:56] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Then the with meals, that one you could take all the caps- I think there's [00:38:00] eight capsules in a packet. You could take all eight with lunch. You could break them up and take eight with lunch. [00:38:05] I'm sorry, four with lunch, four with dinner. So it's really, um, up to an individual. But [00:38:10] these are things that would be much more liver, bile flow, and, um, [00:38:15] elimination through the colon and kidneys focused.
[00:38:17] Dr. Gregory Kelly: So th- their job now is, 'cause [00:38:20] w- one of the, the downsides of eating food is that we create a lot of things from the food that [00:38:25] are also need to be processed through phase one and phase two. Um, in food there's [00:38:30] probably gonna be now, unfortunately, microplastics. And, um, you know, if it's canned [00:38:35] food, maybe some, um, bisphenols and other, um, plasticizer compounds.
[00:38:39] Dr. Gregory Kelly: [00:38:40] Um, just in the food, even if we're buying organic meat and fruits, there's probably some [00:38:45] residue from the environment that is on those because we don't live in a, a super clean world anymore. [00:38:50] So the goal of that is with your meals, take these nutritious, um, [00:38:55] botanical extracts and, and other things that help digest your meal better.
[00:38:58] Dr. Gregory Kelly: There's some digestive enzymes. [00:39:00] There's, um, some spore probiotics. And then, um, these tonic herbs that will just help the [00:39:05] organs of elimination and transformation work better, and that helps you win those meals, [00:39:10] so to speak
[00:39:11] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Got it. And then the last part?
[00:39:14] Dr. Gregory Kelly: So then the [00:39:15] part three is what we think of as a binder stack.
[00:39:17] Dr. Gregory Kelly: That's what you would do between meals, and [00:39:20] between meals doesn't have to be super neurotic. It could be an hour before eating, any time in the window, maybe [00:39:25] two hours after eating. So, you know, that could be in the, the late morning, in the early [00:39:30] afternoon. If you forget, it could be after dinner at night.
[00:39:33] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Um, binders become [00:39:35] important because, um, one of my favorite study... I wrote a book called Shape Shift back [00:39:40] 12, 14 years ago, about... It had a chapter on detox in it, but it was really about, [00:39:45] more about weight loss and getting in shape. But one of the studies that had come out, uh, [00:39:50] around 2000, they measured the amount of, um, chemicals stored in [00:39:55] adipose tissue and that were in circulation, in plasma in, I think it was about [00:40:00] 35, 36 people.
[00:40:01] Dr. Gregory Kelly: And th- these people then went on a diet, right? Like a, a weight loss [00:40:05] diet where they were eating fewer calories, so losing weight pretty rapidly. And what they [00:40:10] noticed is that the concentrations of these chemical toxins went from [00:40:15] low or lower in our blood to levels that the researchers at the [00:40:20] time called alarmingly high, and it was because a lot of the fat-soluble chemicals, [00:40:25] where do you think those are stored?
[00:40:26] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah, stored in body fat.
[00:40:28] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yeah, yeah, like body [00:40:30] fat, we don't love it. Most of us would- ... would prefer less of it. But one of its jobs is it, [00:40:35] it's actually the, the storage closet for a whole bunch of things that our body never got around to processing and [00:40:40] eliminating. And so when we, we do a drastic, um, thing, [00:40:45] it can be any diet, like even something healthier, but when we're losing rapid amounts of weight loss, so not just [00:40:50] water weight.
[00:40:50] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Like when we do keto, the initial drop in scale weight is largely [00:40:55] water, not adipose weight. But when we're, when we are, um, losing a lot of, of, [00:41:00] um, fat tissue fairly quickly, we're mobilizing a whole bunch of stored toxins. [00:41:05] And the reason they were there in the first place is because we didn't have the capacity at the [00:41:10] time to get rid of them.
[00:41:12] Dr. Gregory Kelly: So, and when we're not... When we're eating less calories, [00:41:15] we're taking in also usually less resources, less nutrition. Um, so we're probably [00:41:20] now in a window where we're even less capable than we're our normal capacity to [00:41:25] metabolize them, and now we're, we're flooding the system with them. And so [00:41:30] that study was then interesting because after the diet phase, they remeasured, and [00:41:35] they were actually now more concentrated in the fat tissue than they were before.
[00:41:39] Dr. Gregory Kelly: [00:41:40] And one of the things, as our fat tissue becomes more toxic, w- we start to see [00:41:45] things develop like the insulin resistance and metabolic syndrome and, and [00:41:50] other, um, inflammatory things that go with adipose tissue. And so w- [00:41:55] we- Our adipose tissue is safeguarding us, but we don't wanna make it [00:42:00] inadvertently more toxic, especially by doing what would be the, the classic, [00:42:05] um, cycling kind of things.
[00:42:06] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Like, you go on a drastic diet and then crash 30 days later [00:42:10] and binge eat and then try another diet. That, that cycle often [00:42:15] results in, um, more and more body fat accumulation and more and more toxic, [00:42:20] um, body t- fat because we're, we're not, we're not doing a good job supporting [00:42:25] these things and constantly flushing toxins out and then recirculating them.
[00:42:29] Dr. Gregory Kelly: So that's where [00:42:30] the binder stack comes in, into play. Uh, ultimately, these things that go into [00:42:35] circulation will go into the liver, um, to be biotransformed and, [00:42:40] um, and then into the digestive tract. And where what binders shine at, [00:42:45] they grab hold of the things that are in the digestive tract and then [00:42:50] allow them to be excreted with our stool.
[00:42:53] Dr. Gregory Kelly: So like a, a binder [00:42:55] stack is again, you'll see some, a, a fair amount of those as standalone [00:43:00] offerings, but a binder stack we at Qualia would think should be a, um, a critical component [00:43:05] of any well-thought-out detoxification program. Because without that binding step, we're [00:43:10] largely flushing and recirculating.
[00:43:12] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Got it. And then what's [00:43:15] the step four?
[00:43:16] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yeah, so step four we intend people to take at bedtime. It's the simplest step. [00:43:20] It's just three ingredients. But over the last decade, neuroscience has found out that [00:43:25] the brain has its own detoxification or cleansing system- Hmm ... that's called the glymphatic system. [00:43:30] So instead of lymphatic, there's a GL or a G at the beginning, glymphatic.
[00:43:33] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Kind
[00:43:33] Dr. Mike T Nelson: of like the car [00:43:35] washing for the little neurons?
[00:43:36] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yeah, yeah. For like a... Our brain is a hardworking organism. It's [00:43:40] somewhere about 20% of all the energy that we use in a day is to run our [00:43:45] brain. And one of the consequences of that is mitochondria create a lot of, you know, ox- [00:43:50] oxidative, um, or free radicals, things like that, and other byproducts of [00:43:55] metabolism that the brain has to cleanse away.
[00:43:57] Dr. Gregory Kelly: And when it does that is in the, the [00:44:00] early stages of sleep that are, that, where, where our brain will go the deepest into [00:44:05] sleep, so deep sleep. So the goal of that stack was to give, um, one ingredient. It's actually [00:44:10] celery. You mentioned celery earlier.
[00:44:11] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Hmm. Yeah, yeah. I saw it was in there.
[00:44:13] Dr. Gregory Kelly: It, it's got a... It's [00:44:15] standardized for a really specific compound that looks like it's, it's one of the few things that supports that [00:44:20] glymphatic drainage.
[00:44:21] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Hmm.
[00:44:21] Dr. Gregory Kelly: And then the other two things in it are, um, [00:44:25] peptides from a rice extract and GABA, both w- which are in there intended to help [00:44:30] support getting people into deeper sleep.
[00:44:33] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Interesting. [00:44:35] The- The silvery extract, is that [00:44:40] something that maybe athletes or people who are really [00:44:45] pushing hard at learning new skills or new jobs or [00:44:50] things like that should consider to help that sort of lymphatic drainage?
[00:44:54] Dr. Mike T Nelson: I'm just [00:44:55] thinking of cases where you're kinda working your brain more than usual 'cause [00:45:00] you're, you're trying to create new pathways and neuroplasticity and, and [00:45:05] things like that, I guess.
[00:45:06] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yeah. When we're... One of the interesting things, y- do you, do you happen [00:45:10] to play a musical instrument, Mike?
[00:45:12] Dr. Mike T Nelson: I do not. I try to DJ once in a while.
[00:45:14] Dr. Mike T Nelson: I used to [00:45:15] play clarinet and I used to play piano. Okay. But I don't play anything right now outside of that.
[00:45:19] Dr. Gregory Kelly: All right. Well, we'll just say [00:45:20] piano. So I don't play piano e- either. But if I, if I decided I wanted to practice [00:45:25] and get good at piano, it would take my brain a lot of energy-
[00:45:28] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Mm-hmm ... to do that.
[00:45:29] Dr. Gregory Kelly: [00:45:30] Now conversely, I would probably play really poorly, so you wouldn't wanna listen to me, [00:45:35] where someone that already knows how to play piano really well, their brain is doing that really well on almost [00:45:40] no energy in comparison.
[00:45:41] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Mm-hmm. So it always takes the brain a lot more resources and energy to get good [00:45:45] at a new skill than to do something that our brain has already burned into to memory, [00:45:50] so to speak. And so yeah, whenever we're trying to, um, learn something new, ask [00:45:55] more of our brain, then it's always a good idea to give it more support.
[00:45:58] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Um, the main way at [00:46:00] Qualia we've always done that is through Qualia Mind- Mm-hmm ... our nootropic stack, which has a lot of [00:46:05] what I would think of as resources for the brain. But you're right, we're probably now also creating [00:46:10] more waste products during that, and so yeah, something like Qualia 2 Day Detox would be a natural fit.[00:46:15]
[00:46:15] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And I'm a big fan of Qualia Mind. I remember back talking to the [00:46:20] two brothers when they first started, when it was, they had the two separate, was [00:46:25] it the four capsules and, like, the six capsules, and they were completely, you had to take them at separate [00:46:30] times and everything. And so it's been cool to see kinda the, the evolution [00:46:35] over many years.
[00:46:36] Dr. Mike T Nelson: That was, God, was it 2015, I think, or '16 or [00:46:40] something like that. So yeah- Yeah, we, we, um- ... it's pretty cool to see the evolution ...
[00:46:43] Dr. Gregory Kelly: we were 10 years old [00:46:45] last December. So that, that original product we refer to now as, as 2-Step 'cause of the, [00:46:50] like-
[00:46:50] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yes. Yep ...
[00:46:50] Dr. Gregory Kelly: different yeah. And, um, and that, that existed for [00:46:55] really, um, most of our first two years, and then we, we transitioned that into what's [00:47:00] now Qualia Mind.
[00:47:01] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Very cool ...
[00:47:02] Dr. Gregory Kelly: wanted to make it easier and fewer capsules for people to [00:47:05] take, so.
[00:47:05] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And it, it is funny how those little compliance things, like, do make a [00:47:10] difference on especially something that's a little bit more of a semi-daily [00:47:15] use thing too. I think that does make a, a difference I've noticed with clients.
[00:47:19] Dr. Gregory Kelly: [00:47:20] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:47:21] Dr. Mike T Nelson: And on the detox, is it something... [00:47:25] I mean, I've talked to a few practitioners, and their opinion was, and kinda what you said, that [00:47:30] anyone who's doing a more aggressive fat loss phase, that you should do something to [00:47:35] support detox. And the first time I heard that, I was kinda like, "Eh, I don't know."
[00:47:39] Dr. Mike T Nelson: And then they're like, [00:47:40] well, exactly what you said. You're releasing a lot of these toxins from fat, and [00:47:45] you don't want them to just flow around and not be processed and then shoved back into the [00:47:50] fat tissue. So maybe you have a little bit of smaller fat cells, but they technically are more, like you [00:47:55] said, concentrated now because you didn't get rid of the things that you were trying to get [00:48:00] out.
[00:48:00] Dr. Mike T Nelson: So I'm assuming you would agree with that, that especially people are- I- ... doing more [00:48:05] aggressive fat loss, this is something they should take a deeper look at.
[00:48:09] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yeah. I [00:48:10] 100% would agree with that. Yeah. Um, I, I think there's a, a few different ways to [00:48:15] think about quality detox. The most basic way and, and what we would recommend is just [00:48:20] take the product two days a month.
[00:48:21] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yeah, um, I'll usually take it on a weekend, um, when [00:48:25] I'm not doing much else. And, um, and just it's, it's a, um, [00:48:30] I would say, like, it, it's a days now that you're likely to win. And on those [00:48:35] days, um, you know, if you have access to a sauna or can be out in the sun or do [00:48:40] some other things where, um, you know- general, [00:48:45] like, light movement like yoga or tai chi that will get the lymph flowing, right?
[00:48:49] Dr. Gregory Kelly: That [00:48:50] it's a good, good pairing to pack this extra nutrition for [00:48:55] our detoxification processes with some lifestyle things and anchor the two together. [00:49:00] And now, like y- you have a weekend where you just want compared to how it normally is for you. [00:49:05] Um, and then, you know, d- if we're doing it every month, now we're starting to, to stack [00:49:10] up wins, so to speak.
[00:49:11] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Um, what we saw in our study, 'cause one of the things at Qualia [00:49:15] before we decide to make a product, we always do a small study on it. So what we did is we [00:49:20] made enough for a group of people to take the entire, you know, four products [00:49:25] for a weekend, then wait, I think it was 12 days, and then do another weekend.
[00:49:29] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Hmm. So we did two [00:49:30] cycles over, um, the equivalent being like, you know, two in a month instead of one a month. [00:49:35] And then we, um, used a questionnaire that the Institute of Functional Medicine developed a long time [00:49:40] ago called the Medical Symptom Questionnaire that they would use with practitioners to gauge the [00:49:45] need for systemic detox.
[00:49:47] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Um, the general way that that questionnaire works [00:49:50] is there's multiple body parts with questions assigned to each, like the mind, weight would be two of [00:49:55] them, energy's a third, gastrointestinal's a, a fourth. Um, and then they ask [00:50:00] people their degree of symptoms with a few things. So, like, in mind it will ask [00:50:05] questions about your ability to focus or concentrate.
[00:50:07] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Um, you know, it will ask a little bit [00:50:10] about, um, self-rating your memory, things like that. Um, for energy it will ask, like, your, [00:50:15] your level of fatigue, and it's asking you to look back a- about 14 days. And [00:50:20] typically the way that would be used is a higher score would indicate there's, [00:50:25] there's really four ranges to it.
[00:50:26] Dr. Gregory Kelly: But if you're in one of the higher ranges, a Institute of Functional [00:50:30] Medicine trained MD or chiropractor or a naturopath would generally think, okay, there's [00:50:35] more need now for detoxification, for detox support because you're having a broad [00:50:40] array of symptoms impacting multiple symptoms or multiple areas of the bo- [00:50:45] multiple organ systems.
[00:50:46] Dr. Gregory Kelly: And so we used that questionnaire, and what we saw was just in that [00:50:50] simple small study, just stacking two wins together in a month, that we [00:50:55] saw i- uh, significant improvements in the total scores, scores in the mind subarea, [00:51:00] the digestion subarea, the energy subarea, and a couple other areas. [00:51:05] So the goal isn't necessarily to have to do something every day, every day, but add something [00:51:10] in at least once a month.
[00:51:11] Dr. Gregory Kelly: We're, we're starting to build momentum and, and win the race. [00:51:15] And so at the end of the year, instead of having accumulated more things in our fat tissue as an [00:51:20] example, we've, we've really reduced some of the load. And then if someone wants to be more [00:51:25] aggressive and take it more frequently, that's fine too.
[00:51:27] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Um, you know, I know some of us at [00:51:30] Qualia, you know, will, you know, have already taken the product four days in a row as an example. [00:51:35]
[00:51:35] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Hmm. And you had talked about walking, like other things you would do on that [00:51:40] day, I assume probably not heavy training. Would you try to consume more [00:51:45] micronutrition-rich food?
[00:51:47] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Would you try to be in a little bit more of a [00:51:50] caloric deficit? And if you have access to sauna and just kinda keep it Light [00:51:55] movement overall or any other ancillary things to recommend on those two [00:52:00] days?
[00:52:00] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yeah, I don't, I don't think we need to do any of those things, but if you wanted to do them, yeah.
[00:52:04] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Like, I, I have [00:52:05] access to, um, here in Costa Rica, a scene r- a steam room, a hot tub, and a cold [00:52:10] plunge. Nice. So I would just make sure I'm doing those on those days. At home, just through the gym I'm at, [00:52:15] there's, um, there's a sauna and a steam room. There's no cold plunge, but I would, I would tend to do those, like make [00:52:20] sure I'm doing that on that day, or on those two days.
[00:52:22] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Um, I live by the beach, right? And [00:52:25] so most of the year in San Diego, the, the sun's not super strong. I would go out and get some, some [00:52:30] light sunshine, maybe go in the ocean or at a minimum, stand in the ocean for a little bit [00:52:35] to kinda ground and get that, that, um, sense of movement from, [00:52:40] from it. So, um, beyond that, I personally won't overcomplicate it.
[00:52:44] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Um, [00:52:45] you know, I... Most weekends I'm not doing a super strenuous workout. I'm doing more [00:52:50] like breath work, um, yoga type of things on my weekends, so I would integrate that. [00:52:55] But I, I think it integrates in no matter what. But I, I would, if anything, the sauna piece [00:53:00] would maybe be the most important thing if you have access to it.
[00:53:02] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Um, one of the only studied [00:53:05] detoxification protocols is actually the Scientology. Um, did you know they had [00:53:10] their own detox protocol, Mike?
[00:53:11] Dr. Mike T Nelson: I heard some rumors about that, and I actually [00:53:15] looked at some of the data on sauna and detox, and I could be making this up, but I [00:53:20] wanna say someone else told me about that, but I've never read it or I don't know much about it.
[00:53:24] Dr. Mike T Nelson: [00:53:25] So yeah, please tell us. Yeah. So
[00:53:25] Dr. Gregory Kelly: they, they, um, so it, it was actually, like one of the studies [00:53:30] on it was on some first responders from 9/11. Hmm. Um, we're recording this, I, I don't know when it'll air, [00:53:35] but it's, the 9/11 wasn't, um, anniversary. It was very recent to when- Yeah,
[00:53:39] Dr. Mike T Nelson: very [00:53:40] recent
[00:53:40] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Um, yeah, and so the, the crux of that is they [00:53:45] do, um, sauna.
[00:53:46] Dr. Gregory Kelly: I've often... Some of the people that I know that worked a lot more with [00:53:50] really sick people, the multiple chemical sensitivities, believed more in low temperature saunas [00:53:55] than really cranking up the heat.
[00:53:56] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Hmm.
[00:53:56] Dr. Gregory Kelly: So when we crank up the heat, well, th- we sweat more, but we're [00:54:00] sweating out a lot more water. Mm-hmm.
[00:54:01] Dr. Gregory Kelly: When the temperature's a bit lower, we're, if we were to, um, look at the [00:54:05] skin, it's more oily. We're actually mobilizing things. So we don't have to have crazy, crazy [00:54:10] intense, um, sauna. But a big part of that Scientology protocol [00:54:15] was using a sauna, flushing niacin, like a, a big dose of that. The idea [00:54:20] that helped, um, lipolysis, right?
[00:54:21] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Mobilizing things. Um, but flushing [00:54:25] niacin is not pleasant. I don't, I don't know if you've ever-
[00:54:27] Dr. Mike T Nelson: It's the... Yeah. [00:54:30] I screwed up years ago. I bought a supplement. I didn't read the label. I took [00:54:35] it and forgot, and all of a sudden I just had this [00:54:40] massive red flushing response. My first thought was like, "Oh God, do I, do I have some allergic [00:54:45] reaction?
[00:54:45] Dr. Mike T Nelson: What's going on?" And then when I calmed down a little bit, I read the label and realized it was [00:54:50] this ungodly proportion of niacin and realized, oh, oh, okay, that's [00:54:55] that's doing it.
[00:54:59] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yeah, so [00:55:00] like sauna would be my number one recommendation, but then just gentle mo- movement. Um, [00:55:05] you know, a, a lot of what the old time naturopaths would have taught [00:55:10] me would have been, um, you know, to get some fresh juice in those [00:55:15] days.
[00:55:15] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Mm. Or doesn't have to be fruit, it can be vegetable, but, um, you know, plenty of [00:55:20] water, hydration. It's a good time to just try to eat a cleaner diet for those couple of days, [00:55:25] just kind of unburden the system in, in general.
[00:55:28] Dr. Mike T Nelson: And in the sauna, was there some [00:55:30] practice... I might have, I'm blanking on who I got this from.
[00:55:33] Dr. Mike T Nelson: I think it was one of Poliquin's coaches back [00:55:35] in the day, that they would do almost like a skin scraping [00:55:40] thing or like trying... The thought was if you're getting these toxins out, you wanna get them [00:55:45] off of the skin so they're not reabsorbed again. I was never able to track [00:55:50] anything down on that.
[00:55:52] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yeah. So, um, what was popular [00:55:55] back when I was, even before I was, um, went to naturopathic school, [00:56:00] I, I think it w- the name was something Paavo Airola would've been one of the, the health [00:56:05]
[00:56:05] Dr. Mike T Nelson: hosts.
[00:56:05] Dr. Mike T Nelson: It could have been.
[00:56:06] Dr. Gregory Kelly: But it was skin brushing.
[00:56:07] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yes. That was part of it, I think. Yeah. It was [00:56:10] scraping, brushing, and doing it- Yeah ... in the sauna, I think, if I remember correctly.
[00:56:14] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Scraping would be in the [00:56:15] sauna. Skin brushing would be independent of that. Okay. It would just be like, like a natural fiber bristle brush.
[00:56:19] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Mm.
[00:56:19] Dr. Gregory Kelly: [00:56:20] That once a day you would just brush your skin. Mm. In the a- Like, it's, it's like a mild [00:56:25] exfoliation, and our skin would also be an organ of elimination, right? Um, um, Hazel [00:56:30] Parcells in that generation, I mentioned to her as like, you know, one of the, the, um, the [00:56:35] originators of s- of some of the protocols that my r- um, my mentors would have had.[00:56:40]
[00:56:40] Dr. Gregory Kelly: She would have done a lot of baths, right? Like, um, y- you know, and a [00:56:45] bath could be, you know, like, um, a mineral salt- Mm ... right? Water. [00:56:50] Um, oats have been a, a popular thing to put in it. So baths would be another common [00:56:55] thing that's been used over time.
[00:56:56] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Hm. Very
[00:56:57] Dr. Gregory Kelly: cool. Again, these aren't must dos, but there, there's lots of, [00:57:00] like, for lack of a better way to describe it, hacks that have stood the test of time, [00:57:05] right?
[00:57:05] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yeah. Helping to, um, you know, for the body to eliminate things.
[00:57:09] Dr. Mike T Nelson: [00:57:10] Awesome. Uh, as we wrap up, is there any other topic or anything [00:57:15] related to this that I didn't ask you that I, I should have asked you? Like, "Oh, you didn't ask about this thing or [00:57:20] that thing."
[00:57:21] Dr. Gregory Kelly: N- um, no, I think the most important thing for [00:57:25] your listeners is, um- It's [00:57:30] often really challenging to get started on something new, and we, we tend to [00:57:35] overcomplicate it.
[00:57:35] Dr. Gregory Kelly: So, um, we have another product called Qualia Synolytic that's been around- Mm-hmm ... for [00:57:40] four or five years.
[00:57:40] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah.
[00:57:41] Dr. Gregory Kelly: That's also- I'll
[00:57:41] Dr. Mike T Nelson: link to the Dr. Dan Pardi episode. We talked all about it.
[00:57:44] Dr. Gregory Kelly: [00:57:45] Yeah. So we- Yeah ... we, that's also a two-day protocol. And so right from the get-go, I just decided, [00:57:50] okay, that's what, what Greg, uh, here as a speaker does the first weekend of every month.
[00:57:54] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Mm. [00:57:55] So the first weekend every month, I just take that. I, I usually don't take any other supplements. [00:58:00] Um, you know, for some reason traveling, I have to miss it, then I'll just move it. But it's made it super [00:58:05] easy to take it because it's, I don't have to think where it fits in my life. Um, Qualia d- two-day [00:58:10] detox for me, now I've just decided I'll take that the middle weekend of the month.
[00:58:13] Dr. Gregory Kelly: So like I'll, [00:58:15] um, just slot it in there. And so I think one of the, it's kind of a [00:58:20] story I, I remember from The Tipping Point, the book by Malcolm Gladwell.
[00:58:23] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yes.
[00:58:24] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Great book. Example they [00:58:25] gave I think was Yale University, and they were trying to get the students to go to the health [00:58:30] center more to get vaccines maybe.
[00:58:32] Dr. Gregory Kelly: And, um, and tried a whole bunch of things like scare [00:58:35] tactics on brochures, you name it. And the thing that made the biggest impact was putting a [00:58:40] little drawing on the brochure that showed the location on the campus of [00:58:45] the clinic and what hours it was open.
[00:58:47] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Mm.
[00:58:47] Dr. Gregory Kelly: So basically showing them s- where [00:58:50] something was that they already knew existed and the hours that it was accessible, [00:58:55] right?
[00:58:55] Dr. Gregory Kelly: So that, that, the lesson from that is figuring out where something's gonna fit in our [00:59:00] life- is the most important step for making sure that we actually follow through and do [00:59:05] it. So that would be it. It doesn't have to be complicated. I like doing [00:59:10] personally the Qualia two-day detox for the most part on a weekend, 'cause I have more time to go to the gym and do a [00:59:15] sauna, and do some things that are, are more supportive of whole body healing.
[00:59:19] Dr. Gregory Kelly: But [00:59:20] wherever it happens to fit in for your listeners, um, I think it's, it's easier for something like [00:59:25] this when we choose in advance, like, this is where and how it's gonna fit into my life. [00:59:30]
[00:59:30] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for all your time. We appreciate it. [00:59:35] I'll make sure to put a link to everything down below here.
[00:59:37] Dr. Mike T Nelson: And, uh, where can people [00:59:40] find more information about you? And I know Qualia's got a bunch of other products. We'll, we'll put a link to [00:59:45] everything down below for those too.
[00:59:46] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Yeah. Um, um, qualialife.com. Uh, we're [00:59:50] really active on Instagram, so that, that would be the best place if you- Oh, perfect ... want more- We'll put that
[00:59:54] Dr. Mike T Nelson: in too
[00:59:54] Dr. Gregory Kelly: um, [00:59:55] information. On our website at the qualialife.com we'll have... We would've written up [01:00:00] the study that we did on Qualia two-day detox. If people want a lot more information on [01:00:05] the, the, the protocol itself, the four packets, but also the ingredients in them, we [01:00:10] have a blog, um, available that has the Qualia...
[01:00:13] Dr. Gregory Kelly: It's titled something simple like [01:00:15] Qualia two-day detox ingredients, where our formulation team just goes through our thought process [01:00:20] behind why everything that's in it is in it, and why we chose the amount that we did. [01:00:25]
[01:00:25] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And last part I'll make a note too is it's awesome that your products are all listed with the [01:00:30] amounts and, you know, the forms and if they're, you know, different things, and [01:00:35] it's not a secret squirrel proprietary blend, you know, trust us, [01:00:40] bro type mix.
[01:00:40] Dr. Mike T Nelson: It's all fully disclosed and the write-ups from the formulators have always been [01:00:45] super good with the, the rationale and everything. So for people who want more information, it... you [01:00:50] make that all super accessible, which is really nice.
[01:00:53] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Great. Well, thanks for having [01:00:55] me on, and thank you to you listeners for,
[01:00:57] Dr. Mike T Nelson: um- Yeah.
[01:00:57] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Thank you so much. We really appreciate it. This was great. [01:01:00] Thank you so much.
[01:01:01] Dr. Gregory Kelly: Okay. Bye.