Don Saladino has spent nearly three decades training A-list stars like Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman -- and here he shares the single business lesson he wishes he'd learned sooner. He and Dr. Mike also dig into why Don closed his $2M-overhead NYC gym, how tracking respiratory rate reshaped his approach to Zone 2 training, and the sobering personal loss that changed how he views performance enhancers.
Don Saladino is a New York-based coach and health entrepreneur who has trained A-list clients like Ryan Reynolds, Hugh Jackman, and Blake Lively since founding Drive495 in 2005.
Don Saladino has spent nearly three decades training A-list stars like Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman — and in this episode, he shares the single business lesson he wishes he’d learned sooner. He and Dr. Mike also dig into why Don closed his $2M-overhead NYC gym, how tracking respiratory rate reshaped his approach to Zone 2 training, and the sobering personal loss that changed how he views performance enhancers.
Expect to learn why Don stopped over-certifying and started looking at what’s leaking in his business, how he built 17 years of trust with a client like Ryan Reynolds, the real financial toll of running a NYC gym (think $1M rent and $2M overhead), what tracking respiratory rate taught him about Zone 2 training volume, his honest take on performance enhancers at 49 (natural), and the personal loss that reshaped how he views unsupervised PED use, and much more.
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Episode Timestamps:
[00:00:00] Don Saladino: Yes, sir.
[00:01:14] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Hello. How are you, sir? Can
[00:01:16] Don Saladino: you... How do I sound?
[00:01:18] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah, sounds good. Can you hear me all right?
[00:01:20] Don Saladino: Perfectly. I'm, I'm, uh, I, I'm mic'd up and I have, uh, my headset in.
[00:01:25] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Oh, perfect.
[00:01:26] Don Saladino: I got these amazing new RODE mics. Have you seen these things?
[00:01:30] Dr. Mike T Nelson: I- They're like it- Someone else was telling me about them. They're supposed to be really good.
[00:01:33] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Oh, my
[00:01:33] Don Saladino: God. This piece here plugs into the back of your computer.
[00:01:37] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Okay.
[00:01:38] Don Saladino: Okay? And then they give you two mics. Oh. And you just literally plug it in and it's terrific quality. It's really nice.
[00:01:45] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Huh, that's pretty cool. Awesome. And so you just record right off the computer then, right?
[00:01:49] Don Saladino: Yeah, that's it. Huh. It's perfect.
[00:01:52] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Cool.
[00:01:52] Don Saladino: Been doing all my podcasts on it now and everything, so very cool. What's going on with you? How's training? How's life?
[00:01:58] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Uh, it's been good. Just, uh, finished training right now before this. It's been f- it's so freaking hot. I did a cold water immersion in the converted freezer just to try to prevent myself from continuing to sweat through the whole podcast.
[00:02:12] Don Saladino: You know, it, it, it really is helpful, you know? It really is helpful. Um, I gotta start. I, I, I actually been in a little bit of a cold plunge lull. Um, I gotta start getting back into it. I got it right there. Like, even for 30 seconds first thing in the morning when you wake up or maybe like an off day, like I just love doing it.
[00:02:28] Don Saladino: I feel good from it, so, um-
[00:02:30] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. But other than that, training's good. Uh, grip stuff went pretty good today, even considering it's so hot, like the sweat starts running down your arms, so you got frigging chalk- Yeah ... like up to here- Yeah, yeah ... and you've got like 15 seconds to do your lift before it just runs through your hand.
[00:02:45] Don Saladino: Yeah. No, I, I know. I get it. I totally get it.
[00:02:49] Dr. Mike T Nelson: How'd the intervals go for you?
[00:02:51] Don Saladino: Been going well. Yeah, I did them t- I did them yesterday. I'm now, I didn't, uh, uh, I gotta start progressing now to, I think, four.
[00:03:00] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Oh, nice.
[00:03:00] Don Saladino: Yeah, yeah. The first one felt, yeah, I, I think now, it took me a few weeks, and now I'm like, I finished the interval this week, and I was like, "You know what?
[00:03:06] Don Saladino: Next week I'm gonna go to four." Um, I also last week, when I got on the rower, that was, like, ironically, the, the highest I've been able to get my heart rate in a while, because I just gradually, like for 15 minutes, I gradually just increased my, um, my pace. Oh, yeah. So I think I started out, I think like the first, you know, first 500 meters I was at like a 150, the next 500 I was at like a 140.
[00:03:33] Don Saladino: The last 5, I think I was at like a 120. I was cruising. Oh, damn. I was blistering, like flying. So it had to be about three, a little less than three minutes of work, and that's when I said I got those 4,000 meters in-
[00:03:46] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah ...
[00:03:46] Don Saladino: in, in, on like 14:56 or 14:7. Oh, that's great. It was, it was good, but I wasn't, it wasn't the plan early on, but I started, I was gonna do steady state for 30 minutes, and then I'm like getting into it, and I'm like, you know when you just are like, "Fuck this, I'm shifting gears"?
[00:04:02] Don Saladino: Yeah. And then when I got to 10 minutes, I was like, "Oh, I, I wanna try and do this." And that's when I realized today's gonna be a high-intensity workout over a steady- Yeah, but you know what? I don't like- It's all right ... I don't, but and I also don't believe, I don't always believe that you have to like f- like when you're in there and you're feeling it- Yeah
[00:04:22] Don Saladino: I think sometimes you gotta take advantage of it. And that's no different than like when you're going in, you're not planning on PR-ing, but everything's moving easy, and you're like, "All right," like- Yeah,
[00:04:30] Dr. Mike T Nelson: same thing ... "
[00:04:30] Don Saladino: today's the day," like- You know, go for it, and, and I've actually, it set me up for a great day of success.
[00:04:37] Don Saladino: Like, I just felt fantastic. I did it early in the morning, then I came back and lifted. I had a great lift. I PR'd on a bunch of my overhead work. It was just like- Nice ... it just kind of fed into it a bit. Um, but like, and then I thought about it last week, and I definitely did less zone two work last week. I, I, 'cause I did two days of higher intensity intervals, one day of track work, and then I did one day of hockey, which really is more of your longer, like I'm not- Yeah,
[00:05:03] Dr. Mike T Nelson: longer interval-ish
[00:05:05] Don Saladino: Yeah, I'm not getting into zone five.
[00:05:06] Don Saladino: I'm rarely getting into zone four. I'm more like zone two, zone three, um, for the, for, you know, 90 minutes, so that's, you know, even
[00:05:14] Dr. Mike T Nelson: though- Yeah, that's a long time ...
[00:05:15] Don Saladino: it's a, it's a long time. So but I put it, but I think the proof's in the pudding, man. My lifts are getting stronger. Um, I feel really good. My sleep's been good.
[00:05:26] Don Saladino: You know, I'm just kinda going with it right now, I guess. But-
[00:05:28] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah ...
[00:05:29] Don Saladino: yeah, sticking with it.
[00:05:29] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Yeah, and when you have those, it's the same thing, right? Like you said, when you have those good days, like you've done this long enough to know when you can push it and you'll, you'll be okay, right? And you also have done it long enough to know where, okay, today was a day I'm supposed to really go hard and no matter how much gonadal fortitude I put in, it, it's just not there
[00:05:51] Don Saladino: Yeah.
[00:05:51] Don Saladino: And you know, it, it, it's happened that time, so sometimes you're going in there like it's a high intensity day, and you're just dragging ass, and you're looking at your readiness, and your readiness is good. And it's just like- Yep ... it doesn't, it doesn't always pan out, right? It just doesn't, and I think we just get so caught up in the numbers, and we start...
[00:06:09] Don Saladino: A- a- in a way, I think it, you shoot yourself in the foot at times. Like, you're supposed to use this data to your advantage, but a lot of times I think people are like, "Well, I'm fatigued, I'm fatigued, I'm fatigued." I'm like, "You're just out of shape, man. You've been saying- Yeah ... you're fatigued for a year." You know, I said to a client of mine once, I was like, "Listen, I never like to use this word, but like look at you.
[00:06:27] Don Saladino: You put on body fat." You're not training as consistently. You're drinking, you're having steaks late at night. Like, it's not adrenal fatigue. You're retired. You made $400 million that's sitting in your bank right, right now. You're not fatigued. You're out of shape. So I don't know, I, I still think, like, I love the data, I love the science, but I'm also at this point in my career where I'm like, all right, you know what?
[00:06:50] Don Saladino: Supposed to be a zone two day, I'm going in there, and I got way more out of those 15 minutes than I would've got out of 30 to 45 in zone two. I mean, even the- Oh, yeah. I've found- Even that night I slept great. The next day I felt great. It was just like, it just set me up for success. So I don't know, that's what it's about.
[00:07:08] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. That's cool. Um-
[00:07:09] Don Saladino: I like the shorter bursts. You know what, sometimes too, like the shorter bursts, I don't know what your opinion is, but, you know, I know accumulating all the zone two, the importance of it, but sometimes these shorter bursts are also a little less fatiguing 'cause it's less mileage, I feel like.
[00:07:24] Don Saladino: Even if you're not doing high intensity, like I'm hearing people now like, "Yeah, I did zone two for 10 minutes after a workout, and I'm doing that six, seven days a week. I feel amazing." Like, is that really doing anything or not? Well, they feel amazing. Like, I don't, like what's-
[00:07:38] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah ...
[00:07:38] Don Saladino: how, how am I gonna tell someone no?
[00:07:41] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Like, if it works for them, it works for them. I'm not really gonna-
[00:07:44] Don Saladino: Yeah ...
[00:07:44] Dr. Mike T Nelson: argue with them, unless they're a client of mine and then they start complaining about, "Well, I don't know if I'm seeing the results." Okay, if you're not seeing results- Well, stop doing your own shit ... now we're gonna have a chat.
[00:07:53] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah,
[00:07:53] Don Saladino: exactly. Stop doing your own shit.
[00:07:55] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah.
[00:07:57] Don Saladino: Oh, man, could've done a podcast on that.
[00:07:59] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Well, we'll stick this at the end. That's good stuff.
[00:08:01] Don Saladino: Perfect. Perfect.
[00:08:02] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Um, but yeah, I just thought I wanna talk about maybe just some of the business stuff, 'cause you've gone through- Sure ... everything from- Yeah ... gyms to online to- Yeah
[00:08:10] Dr. Mike T Nelson: to everything, and just, yeah. Gonna start there.
[00:08:12] Don Saladino: Perfect.
[00:08:13] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Cool. I'll do a little pause, and away we go. Awesome. Welcome to the podcast, Don. How are you?
[00:08:20] Don Saladino: It's an honor to be here. I, I, and I can't believe you and I have only known each other for a couple months now. It's kind of ironic,
[00:08:25] Dr. Mike T Nelson: right? I know. I was out in New York there, and I, you know, I've known of you, you know, being in the industry for- Thank you
[00:08:29] Dr. Mike T Nelson: many, many years and stuff. Thank you. And then, yeah, finally got to meet you in person in New York. I was like, "Oh, this is amazing."
[00:08:35] Don Saladino: Well, Coates, well, Coates and our buddy Marcos and all these- Yeah ... great, all these people that I absolutely love, you know, s- always spoke so highly of you, so it was like I was fanboying a bit the second-
[00:08:45] Don Saladino: I had a chance to meet you. I was like, "Oh, this is great. I gotta meet this guy and pick his brain about..." But thank you for having me on. Really grateful.
[00:08:50] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah, no problem. I wanted to start it off with what do you think over the years is if you could imprint only one business lesson to new fitness trainers or coaches, what would be like the one thing you'd be like, "Oh, man.
[00:09:05] Dr. Mike T Nelson: There's many, many things, but this would be the thing I wish I would've learned sooner than what I did"?
[00:09:12] Don Saladino: You know, it's, in the beginning when you start, you know, in business, e- even let, let's just take as a trainer for instance, and I, and I hear this from all these coaches, "Well, no one's gonna train clients the way that I train them."
[00:09:26] Don Saladino: I'm like, "Bullshit." Like, it's- Yeah, they, yeah, but it's like, like get over yourself. Like, I, I know everyone's good, and everyone thinks they're the best, and they have this incredible training system. But, you know, that also applies to other areas of business that you may not know, right? And I think a lot of coaches are continuing to get, you know, their level 57 of a specific certification, and they're doing these things because, uh, they have this inner thirst to wanna improve, and I commend that.
[00:09:52] Don Saladino: Mm-hmm. And I'm never telling anyone to stop that. But at a certain point, that's almost gotta become a bit of a hobby, right? Mm-hmm. Like, i- it's, it's, like, let's face it, Doc, if you don't get any smarter, you're gonna be just fine. Like, like you like- Yeah. ... where you are, yeah, but where you are, like, but, but the reason why you're reading all these labs and all these papers is because, yeah, well, it may be bad example for you 'cause people are coming to you for the data.
[00:10:14] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah, the weird shit.
[00:10:15] Don Saladino: But let's say- Yeah. Yeah, the, the weird shit. So it's a bad example with you, but let's say you're a gym owner, or let's say you're starting something. If you didn't get any smarter, like, you're gonna be fine. Like, it really comes down to now kind of stepping out of your body and looking at the areas of life and business that you're just, you may not be great at, or maybe how you research is up here, and maybe how you handle business is here.
[00:10:39] Don Saladino: Mm-hmm. Maybe it's about assembling team, or maybe it's about recognizing areas of your business that are leaking, it's a term I always use. Like, what's leaking in- Mm ... in your business? I like that. And I, and, and I think that's one of the areas I see most people struggle with is that they go into business, and they wanna own the area that they own.
[00:10:56] Don Saladino: But stepping out of your shoes and recognizing that you need to improve on other areas to become massively successful is, um, I think it's a difficult thing for a lot of coaches to do. 'Cause now you're telling them to come off the floor- Mm-hmm ... and now you're telling them, "Hey, man, like, you gotta give up Scarlett Johansson.
[00:11:12] Don Saladino: You gotta give up Jake Gyllenhaal. You gotta give up all these people that you're working with, that you're getting all this great press from." And I, I don't ca- everyone knows me, everyone who knows me knows I don't care about the celebrity piece. I just, I'm not a celebrity trainer. I, I train these people because I was really good at what I did.
[00:11:27] Don Saladino: And I, you know, was able to get them from point A to point B and solve problems, and connect them with other people that were smarter than me in areas that I needed help with. So I became the ultimate connector. But I find that coaches really fall into this rut of just wanting to do what it is they know how to do, and not actually looking internally and saying, "You know what?
[00:11:47] Don Saladino: If I'm gonna scale my business, if I'm gonna get out of this financial rut, if I'm going to open up more locations, if I'm gonna hire more staff-" I gotta get a little uncomfortable. And a great example is I got a good friend of mine, um, a doctor that's incredible at content, and, um, doesn't matter if it's he or she, I don't wanna give any, um- Yeah, yeah.
[00:12:07] Dr. Mike T Nelson: All good ...
[00:12:08] Don Saladino: hints, but we'll just say it. Um, you know, um, this person is fantastic at creating content, and I called this person one day and I said, "Listen, if content is king, then distribution is the kingdom." Mm. It's a line I stole years ago. Um, forgot who I heard it from, but it's content is king, then distribution is the kingdom.
[00:12:28] Don Saladino: And they're like, "Well, what do you... I get it, but what do you mean?" I said, "You could just keep creating the greatest content on the planet. The problem right now is your distribution. Internally, your business is leaking, and your COO doesn't know what they're doing. The people who are running their media are s- you're spending too much, you're spending too much money with.
[00:12:48] Don Saladino: You're delegating, but you don't really know what's going on in your business, and that's becoming a massive problem." I said, "What you need to do right now is you need to hit the brakes, you need to stop everything, and you need to plug the leak, and you need to fix that because then all the content and all the other business relationships you establish are gonna become that much more meaningful."
[00:13:09] Don Saladino: So I'm trying to help this person right now with that and, um, it, it's tough. And what, what's fascinating is, is you work with someone that is so brilliant like yourself in a specific area, and you move them into another area and it's like...
[00:13:22] Dr. Mike T Nelson: They're like, "Er?"
[00:13:23] Don Saladino: Yeah, but like I saw this, I, I, I saw this with clients working out of my clubs for years, like partners of Goldman Sachs, um, massive, massive private equity companies, uh, venture capitalists.
[00:13:37] Don Saladino: I've worked with, uh, you know, I've worked with Mike Bloomberg, he's worth over $100 billion. And what's fascinating is how incredible they are in their craft, but then when you transition them over to, you know, they walk into the gym floor, they turn into a mental midget. They're like, "
[00:13:52] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Uh," and
[00:13:52] Don Saladino: I'm like, "Well, what did you, what are you having for, for breakfast today?"
[00:13:55] Don Saladino: And they're like, "I don't know. I'm going into the fridge." I'm like, "Wow, it must be fascinating." Like, "Did you wake up for your business to- uh, with your business today and just say, 'What are we working on?'" Like, like, like, seriously, let's dissect this a little bit. You have resources, you have money, so what are you doing?
[00:14:08] Don Saladino: You're delegating. You're surrounding yourself with a team. You know, you're now having people go out and check out real estate and come back to you and learn. And yes, these things cost money, but I'm a risk-taker. I, I, I raised, I, I raised 5 million bucks to open my first club in the city that I had for five years, and it was very successful, but I took that risk.
[00:14:28] Don Saladino: There was no guarantee on my return. Though, uh, that opportunity for me opened every door for me in business. It's what's allowing me to do what I'm doing now. It's why I was able to build, you know, my home gym. I don't train people out of here. Like, you'll, you'll see. Like, this is a two-floor commercial grade spot.
[00:14:44] Don Saladino: This is, you know, I, I paid for this in cash. Like, this was not something that I... I was able to do these things because- you know, of the risk that I took early on. So yeah, I, I think it's, I think it's learning to, um, get out of your comfort zone And, um, I'm gonna throw one more on top of that Yeah,
[00:15:00] Dr. Mike T Nelson: yeah.
[00:15:00] Don Saladino: Please do Take risk. Take risk, man. Like, you're... These young kids out there, you don't have family yet, you don't have kids, you don't have college tuition to pay for, you don't have, you don't have any responsibility. Like, stop wor-
[00:15:10] Dr. Mike T Nelson: A lot of times you don't even have a house payment. You don't even have a mortgage sometimes Yeah, but like,
[00:15:13] Don Saladino: when you're 22 years old-
[00:15:14] Don Saladino: stop worrying about your 401program. Like, go reinvest in yourself and go reinvest in your education. Then after a period of time, yeah, you gotta start getting real. But I was a m- I, I was a massive proponent of recognizing that I was building this machine early on. So was I gonna sit there and play it safe and reinvest every dollar?
[00:15:33] Don Saladino: Like, no. I, I, I reinvested those dollars, not in the markets, which some people are like, "You're stupid." No, I reinvested it in my career. And surrounding with really, really intelligent people and, you know, taking those risks and putting myself in an opportunity right now where I'm... I, I feel like my work is very meaningful.
[00:15:49] Don Saladino: So that was my path, that's what I believed in, and, you know, um, may not be for everyone, but you asked.
[00:15:56] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah, no, that's great. I mean, the two big lessons I learned early on was one from Ryan Lee, who basically told me the same thing, that it's, it's okay to invest and bet on yourself because n- e- especially early on in your career, no one else is going to.
[00:16:10] Dr. Mike T Nelson: And you care more about the result, because it's your life, than anyone else will care. It doesn't mean not to get help, doesn't mean not to get mentors. It just means that at the end of the day, it's okay to invest money, especially early on, in yourself because you can bet on yourself and you know what you're capable of and what you're not capable of.
[00:16:28] Dr. Mike T Nelson: And then the first business coach I hired in 2015-
[00:16:31] Don Saladino: Mm ...
[00:16:32] Dr. Mike T Nelson: I remember on the early call, he's like, "Okay, so how much time do you spend actually reading business versus physiology?" And I'm like, "I don't know, like 10%?" And he's like, "If you never learned another thing in physiology for the next 10 years, do you think you could be okay?"
[00:16:48] Dr. Mike T Nelson: You'd be fine. And I'm like, "Well, yeah, probably, but I would wanna do this." He's like- I wouldn't ... "But you would be fine, right?" I'm like- Yeah ... "Yeah, I'd be fine." He's like, "Maybe you should learn about business." I was like, "Oh, it seems so obvious."
[00:17:01] Don Saladino: I was very, I was very lucky because I think of the area I was in.
[00:17:05] Don Saladino: So I was in, um, New York City. I worked there for, um, uh, physically worked there and lived there for, I lived there for 15 years, I worked there for 20, and then around the pandemic... I still work in the city, I still go into the city- Mm-hmm ... maybe, maybe once a week, whatever it is, on average. But, you know, my business now is out of there and it's more in here.
[00:17:23] Don Saladino: I was fortunate... When people ask me, "What books do you recommend?" Like, I don't really have to read those books. Every Friday I was going to breakfast with a CEO that's a VC or, you know, a, a, names that I'm not even in liberty of being able to mention- Yeah ... right, right now. And I'm sitting with people that those people that were writing the book studied from.
[00:17:47] Don Saladino: So when you're, you know, when you're, when you're, when you're going to breakfast at Lapine- Um, you know, in Soho with the CEO of RedBird Capital that, you know, that was on the board of the Yankees and, and, you know, started, uh, uh, was partners with The Rock in the XFL and Legends and, and owns AC Milan and the Red Sox.
[00:18:06] Don Saladino: Like- ... you just start, like, am I reading books or am I more interested in going out and having coffee and trying to, uh, uh, you know, get, you know, add value to that person's life? And, and for me, that is a massive takeaway. When you are able to get around people that you can absorb information from and learn from, and I'm not saying get a free check from them.
[00:18:26] Don Saladino: I'm never looking for that. Yeah. I'm looking to just, how do I get better? So when I saw there was someone that I wanted to be around to get better and to improve, that I can improve from, my... It wasn't about me going and trying to latch onto them. I wanted to actually add value. I kind of reverse it. Well, how, what do they need from me?
[00:18:44] Don Saladino: How can I help them? And a big segue for me was always the, the, the fitness and the nutrition and, and just the Me mentoring them in an area that they weren't good in, and out of nowhere showing that there was such this, y- you know, this, um, I, I, I was unselfish when it came down to my career where it didn't matter if I wasn't, I was thinking about you, I was checking in with you, and just being almost like a big brother to these, you know, to these moguls.
[00:19:12] Don Saladino: And, um, that, that earned a lot of respect. And then suddenly they wanted to see what was best for me and they took me under their wing. So it became a really, you know, a, a, a nice barter in a way, right? Mm-hmm. It was they, they're gonna teach me about areas I need to improve and I'm gonna, I'm gonna make sure that I'm keeping them healthy and keeping them in a good place.
[00:19:32] Don Saladino: And it really is, it's the beauty of our, of our industry and anyone right now listening to this who is into science or fitness or nutrition, they all have the power to do this. It's like stop worrying about the paycheck from, you know, someone. Like a celebrity comes to me, I'm like, "What's your rate?" I'm like, "I don't know.
[00:19:48] Don Saladino: Like what do you want to pay, pay me at the end of the year? I don't give a shit." No, honestly I, I didn't care. That was the attitude I was taking. And, and, "Well, you have to live, you have to support yourself." I'm like, "Yeah, but like Ryan Reynolds paying me $500 an hour or is it just like, 'Hey buddy, like we've been together for 17 years, like take care of me at the end of the year or when the movie comes out?'"
[00:20:06] Don Saladino: Like whatever. And then it would always pay tenfold. They would always kind of step up and do great things for me. And but, but for me the fact that I was able to go along that ride for them and, and with them and to experience the things I got to experience and learn specific things in business and the connections and the contacts, it's one of the reasons why I was able to become really successful in the digital space.
[00:20:25] Don Saladino: Um, and I, and I still like to this day, like when, when a Hollywood, when a big name calls me up and they, and they need me to write a program or they do a favor like, you know, you've done it with me. Like you've, you know, you- Oh, yeah. ... you helped me with my, you helped me with my, you know, a lot of my endurance work and, and they, I, I, I was absorbing from you.
[00:20:42] Don Saladino: But the second I had an opportunity to maybe give back or do something, I'm like I'm all over it. Like, and I, I'm like- Oh, yeah. You
[00:20:47] Dr. Mike T Nelson: were super helpful ...
[00:20:48] Don Saladino: no, but, but I, I want to continue doing that. Yeah. That's where friendships and good relationships are built. It's not that we're taking from each other, using each other, it's just, it's just a value add.
[00:20:57] Don Saladino: And Schwarzenegger talked about in his book, I didn't read his book, but everyone's talking about being useful and I'm like if you gotta ask how to be useful, I'm gonna get shot for saying this but- ... then you're pretty useless.
[00:21:08] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah.
[00:21:08] Don Saladino: Right? Like how do you have to as a human being, how do you have to ask, "How do I become useful?"
[00:21:15] Don Saladino: Like what is it? How can you add value to this person's life? It could just be a friend. It could be, you know, if they're in trouble stepping up. It could be writing a program for someone who maybe can't afford it. Like that's the way. You, you could be, you could find a million ways. I could have 100 people walk in there and I could talk to them for a few minutes and find out a way to be useful.
[00:21:34] Don Saladino: Like how are you even asking that question? I, I think that's human being 101. I think these are things that people just you either learn at birth or you don't learn it, you know?
[00:21:43] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah, and I think something that's, I, I sound like an old person now, but I think it's getting a little lost with newer people.
[00:21:49] Dr. Mike T Nelson: And I understand that, yes, you have to make a living, and yes, you should spend money to learn business. But at the same point- Sure Just help people who need help. Like, there isn't always a one-on-one exchange. It's not always a monetary thing. But if you have a skill set and that person really does need help and is serious about what they wanna do-
[00:22:10] Don Saladino: Yeah
[00:22:11] Dr. Mike T Nelson: like, and you can help them, just help them. You know, I know that sounds, like, overly obvious, and it's usually- It's- ... like, small things. It's usually nothing that's massive. It's not like you're writing a program for them and training them for free for four years or- Of
[00:22:26] Don Saladino: course not ... it's usually small things
[00:22:27] Don Saladino: of course, that's different. That's, it's usually- Yeah, it's usually, like- It's a gesture ... small
[00:22:31] Dr. Mike T Nelson: things. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
[00:22:32] Don Saladino: Yeah. It's, it's a ge- I mean, it goes such a long way. I mean, I can't tell you how many times I get calls a week of people needing favors, and I'm just like, "Sure." And I might not hear from them until, you know, they need the next favor, but at least I'm doing, I feel like I'm doing the right thing, and if it ever comes down to where I have to actually lean on them and ask them for something, like, they do.
[00:22:52] Don Saladino: Like, I just had a, a, a big celebrity just do a g- really, really kind thing for me, and I appreciated it, but he was like, "Don, you'd do everything for me when it comes to this stuff. Like, it's the least I can do." And then you don't feel as bad, right? But do it for the right reasons, you know? Try to add value, try...
[00:23:08] Don Saladino: You're not always gonna be treated the way... It's not always gonna come back to you in spades- No ... or, you know, it's just gonna happen. Like, I can't tell you how many people I've helped out and, you know, the, you know, then you don't hear from again. Or they might do wrong by you. But I think that's a good thing, because then you start realizing who your unit is, and you start realizing who you wanna surround yourself with, and you start getting a really good, um, way of detecting the people you wanna allow in your life and not.
[00:23:34] Don Saladino: And these, these are all experiences, but you can't look at helping someone and, and it, it not panning out as, as a failure. What I can't stand is when people reach out to me and they're like, "Hey, I'd love to give you, uh, a free massage, and in exchange, I would love you to post." And I'm like, I don't even respond to these people.
[00:23:51] Don Saladino: Yeah. Like, come on, man. Like, like, like, like, like, stop. Like, we, we just met in the bar. Don't, don't... Like, ask my name at least before you wanna ask to sleep with me. Like, it's, it's really, but it's really no different. Like, I just, I'm shocked on how people just don't understand how to play the game. They just don't.
[00:24:07] Don Saladino: They're like, they're coming into this conversation with an agenda immediately. Or, like, people calling me up, "I wanna come on the podcast." I'm like, great. Like, like, what are you gonna... Like, I don't even know you. Like, I, I- Yeah ... I mean, honestly, like, like, you could be someone that's completely brilliant, but I don't know you.
[00:24:24] Don Saladino: Like, it, it's, why don't we have a conversation? Why don't you invite me on? Why don't you, why don't we get to know each other a little bit and then understand whether, you know, you can add value? Maybe I can't add value. I don't know. And I've had people reach out to me and they're like, "I'd like to come on and talk about this," and I'm like, yeah, I have, thinking to myself, "I have way smarter people coming on to talk about that.
[00:24:43] Don Saladino: Why, why do you think I don't know about what you're..." You know? Why do I think you... Does this make sense? So it's, it's just- Yeah ... I feel like people are very blinded and, and they're not really doing their due diligence and they're immediately just trying to You know, do what's best for them.
[00:24:58] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah, and especially when you read some of these things and it's obvious they don't know who you are, they don't know what you've done.
[00:25:07] Dr. Mike T Nelson: They, they have, like, no, really no idea. So it's like for, at least crying out loud, like, do your homework. If you're gonna go through that process, at, at least know what you're asking, see if it fills something that they may have a problem with or something that they could use. But it... I don't know, it just seems like everyone's just, as many cold DMs as you can send per day, we'll get some sort of fish.
[00:25:31] Dr. Mike T Nelson: And I'm like, "That's just so backwards."
[00:25:33] Don Saladino: It's, but, but it's also, it's so obvious, right? Like, I've been invited on a couple-
[00:25:36] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Oh, super obvious ...
[00:25:37] Don Saladino: I've been invited on a couple of podcasts where, you know, the second I'm on, I'm like, "Oh my God, these people have- ... they didn't do any research on my background. They don't know what I do.
[00:25:46] Don Saladino: They just might be looking at my following or, or, or whatever, and to me, like, "Tell us about yourself." And I'm like, "W- why don't you tell me?" Like, you know? And, and they're like, they don't know. Whoa. They don't have their notes here. They, but they think it's just a conversation. They're like, "Let's just start a podcast and let's have a conversation."
[00:26:01] Don Saladino: Like, when I sat down with you, like, I, I, I, I, I deep dove on you, and it wasn't about me hearing about you from Marcos. Like, I'm going through YouTube videos. I'm going through social handles. I'm like, I'm having my team pull up data. We're running through questions. Like, what do I wanna ask? What is gonna make you feel like, hey, this guy did his homework a bit, and ask you some meaningful things.
[00:26:21] Don Saladino: Not like, "Don- Mm-hmm ... what was it like training Ryan Reynolds for Deadpool?" Like, I don't wanna talk about that. Like, talk to me about something with some substance. Like, I'm not, I'm not a celebrity coach. I train celebrities 'cause I was in a, in a really big city, New York, and I was, um, I had a really good track record of not only getting people from point A to point B, but protecting their integrity and allowing them to feel like a human being.
[00:26:44] Don Saladino: And my, and my team approach and all the people that I've brought in, it made them feel really comfortable out of my environment, and that's, that's why I was able to take my business where I was working with golfers, like, we had an indoor golf facility- Mm-hmm, yep ... in the city, to now, like, suddenly I'm working with Marvel characters.
[00:26:59] Don Saladino: Like, I didn't plan for that. I didn't go to school for that. That was just like, that fell on my lap and that was something that was like, all right, opportunity. Like, you know what? Like, this is gonna be a really good platform for my business. This is gonna put some good money in our pockets. This is gonna be a lot better exposure than golf, right?
[00:27:17] Don Saladino: It's like, I'm still the head of golf performance for Golf Channel. Like, everyone, no one really ever talks about that- ... because they see something else, and they're gonna focus on the areas they wanna see. But, um, you know, like I said, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm blessed and I was, um, I'm really lucky to be in the position that I'm in, so.
[00:27:34] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Do you feel a big part of that is also it's the celebrities, like, realizing that they can trust you? Like, that you're there to do a job for them. You're not there to try to hijack their celebrity status or blast their stuff all over social media without their permission and ... 'Cause I think there's a, a fair amount of, of that, of like, oh, if I just train so and so, and I get to use their image and all this other stuff and-
[00:28:00] Don Saladino: It doesn't work.
[00:28:00] Don Saladino: Yeah ...
[00:28:01] Dr. Mike T Nelson: it just, it, it's so shortsighted- Shallow ... I think.
[00:28:04] Don Saladino: Yeah, it's shallow- Yeah ... shallow. It's shorts- it's shortsighted. I, I, I don't, I don't really understand it. I mean, as long as I've been in the business now, it's 27 years and I trained my first ... I mean, the first celebrity I ever trained was Hugh Jackman, and I can tell you that was 20 years ago 'cause my daughter's about the same- Oh,
[00:28:19] Dr. Mike T Nelson: that was that long ago.
[00:28:20] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah,
[00:28:20] Don Saladino: yeah. That's wild. So, a- and he works with this woman, Beth Lewis, now, who's fantastic. Mm-hmm. But, you know, um, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't know. I, I, I don't really understand. I think sometimes people- like, wanna get into these situations and become, like, friends with these people? And this is, uh, uh, I'm, I'm very friendly with all my clients.
[00:28:42] Don Saladino: Like, they're, they're family, but they're family because I know I'm expendable.
[00:28:48] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Sure.
[00:28:48] Don Saladino: Right? Like, they're family because I'm coming into the situation and I'm always making it about them first. I'm not making it about me. I'm not, you know, "Let's go to dinner, let's hang out." Like, I just can't believe how unprofessional these, a lot of these coaches are, where when they start going down that route and they start living that lifestyle, they kind of wanna, they wanna become that lifestyle.
[00:29:13] Don Saladino: And, like, just don't, don't forget why you're here. Like, we're... You become... A, a, a coach can become a very important person in someone's life. But the second you decide to quit your job or move on or you're moving locations and you're not there anymore, like, you're replaced that day maybe, if not the next day.
[00:29:34] Don Saladino: Mm-hmm. I- it's, it's... And I, that may sound cold and shallow, but it's not. I think this is what- Well, this
[00:29:40] Dr. Mike T Nelson: is how it works ...
[00:29:41] Don Saladino: it's how it works and w- it's what allowed me to keep a level of humility. Now, yes, like someone like Ryan Reynolds, 17 years I'm working with the guy. I'm at the Wrexham game with him last night, you know, at, um, at Yankee Stadium.
[00:29:52] Don Saladino: This guy's like a brother, but he's also like a brother that we don't have to talk every day and we don't go- Yeah. It's... When I went to London with him for Deadpool 3, he was sick. He had walking pneumonia. Mm. We're waking up, we're, we're training at 4:00 in the morning. I'm begging him to sleep in. He won't do it.
[00:30:07] Don Saladino: And I think I had dinner with him o- we went to a Wrexham game in, in, in Wales, and we hung that day and I think we had dinner that night. You know what we had for dinner? We ordered pizza. I was shocked that the pizza there was actually edible. I was, I did never imagine- ... in England it would be good. But, like, we sat there on the counter and we didn't talk.
[00:30:23] Don Saladino: We, he took half, I took the other half, and I, all I said to him was, "We should've ordered another one." And then we both literally went to bed. It was just... But that's, you know, you understand that it doesn't have to be... Just add value. Be useful. Add value. Don't let them stress out over you, no matter who you're working with, whether it's an athlete, whether it's an actor, whoever it is.
[00:30:44] Don Saladino: Like, add value, be there for them when they need you the most.
[00:30:47] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And same thing with elite athletes. Like, some of the people I know who work with a lot of elite athletes, like, most people probably have no idea who they are, which is kind of on purpose. A lot of times you have an NDA, you work with such a team- Mm-hmm
[00:30:59] Dr. Mike T Nelson: you can't work with somebody else, and the reason that they're there is obviously they're good at their profession, but they're also good at knowing when to shut up, knowing when to say something that's important, knowing when to just kind of disappear into the wall, when to show up, like, you know, just those kind of things that I think when you're new you don't think about initially but are, like, super important long term.
[00:31:22] Don Saladino: That's where the art is. That's where the cr- I like to say craftsmanship. Mm-hmm. It sounds funny, but it really is an art and, and you know. Like, and you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah. You've, you've worked with people where they come walking in the room and you're like, "Oh, boy. Here we go." This is like, oh man, this guy's got his ass in the air, and, like, how can you adapt?
[00:31:39] Don Saladino: Are you like, "What's wrong? Is everything all right? Are you okay?" Like, you're annoying. Like, just shut up and do your job. Yeah. So, you know? And then you know what? Let them... They're human. They may have had a bad phone call, maybe- Yeah ... who, maybe they bumped someone on the subway, maybe they got cut from a, a job that they were on hold for.
[00:31:59] Don Saladino: All these things that we all go through. It's no different. And, you know, if you just go in there and you be a good person, and you try and give them exactly what they're coming to you for, if you allow them to leave there saying, you know, "Don," or "Dr. Mike, it's not a luxury. This is a necessity in my life," I mean, that's your business model and you're doing a really good thing.
[00:32:19] Don Saladino: So, you know, that's what I'm, that's what I'm a believer in. But I, but I just- These people are no different. They're, they, they don't, they don't have trainers traveling with them all the time, and they don't have chefs. I, like, this is, like, the 1% of the celebrity world. Their shoots, their shooting schedule is a nightmare.
[00:32:40] Don Saladino: It's way worse than working with athletes, by the way. I've worked with both, so I can sit there-
[00:32:44] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Oh ... and objectively- I've heard horror stories about long shoots and just crazy-ass conditions.
[00:32:48] Don Saladino: I, I, I actually was on a podcast a few years ago, and they were like, "Training athletes or actors, what's harder?" And they're, like, sitting there 'cause they're all strength coaches.
[00:32:55] Don Saladino: And I'm like, "Oh, God." I'm like, "It's not even a comparison." They're like, "We, uh, right. It's athletes, right?" I'm like, "No, it's actors." And they're like, "What are you talking about?" Like, they, they got all offended. Like, "How are you saying that?" I'm like, "Guys," I'm like, "We know, we know the NFL schedule in advance."
[00:33:07] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yep. "
[00:33:08] Don Saladino: But, but, but they're gonna get injured." I'm like, "And they're not getting injured on set?" Like-
[00:33:11] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah ...
[00:33:12] Don Saladino: you know, I've, I've seen actors break their necks, break their back, break their arms. I've seen all these things. They're not, most of them, most of them aren't athletic. Mm-hmm. They're artists. They weren't in high school, you know, doing football.
[00:33:25] Don Saladino: They were doing theater. Yeah. Like, you know? And they didn't walk through, they didn't walk through... Like, Liev Schreiber, who plays Ray, Ray Donovan, he is Ray Donovan, he said, he goes, "I thought training was gonna hurt my acting." Mm. Until he met Hugh Jackman, and Hugh Jackman's like, "No, mate," like, it's this-
[00:33:41] Don Saladino: "This is gonna, this is gonna get you into the, like, this is gonna enhance things for these specific roles." And he talked about long-term health, and resilience, and all these important things. And then Liev, like, embraced it and dove into it. But most of these actors now, I'm not talking about the Chris Hemsworth, who's been doing this now-
[00:33:56] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah
[00:33:57] Don Saladino: as long as I, I am. I'm talking about the other 99% of Hollywood. They're new to this stuff. Like, most of them are new to this stuff. They're, they're not... You know, you see these guys on Men's Health covers now, and you're like, "Okay." And everyone's like, "Steroids," and I'm like, "What are you talking about?" Like, this is, the bar is set so low now, anyone who sees anyone else in shape, they're immediately assuming they're on some peptide or they're on some steroids- Yeah
[00:34:20] Don Saladino: where-
[00:34:20] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Especially if they're lean. Like, 'cause you can- Yeah. ... not have as much muscle, but if you're really lean with good lighting, like, it's gonna look good
[00:34:28] Don Saladino: 100%. 100, 100, 100%. So that's, I mean, that's... I, I also think it's... I think the bar is set really low from society, and I don't think people really understand how you can do some pretty remarkable things without, you know, having to go to the dark side and, um, put things in your body that you don't necessarily know what the return's gonna be.
[00:34:45] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And especially when you've got, I would imagine, a, a deadline of knowing you've got a certain shoot on an approximate date that you're gonna be in front of millions of people, that's a lot of motivation too. You know?
[00:35:00] Don Saladino: There, you know, it's, it, it's like talking... It, it's funny, if we get into the performance-enhancing topic, and I've always had a difficult time talking about this because you know me, I've never, I've never taken anything.
[00:35:11] Don Saladino: Yeah. Like, I'm not, like, I've been... My, my first cover was 2001, and my last cover was two years ago.
[00:35:17] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. You know,
[00:35:17] Don Saladino: I've shot the cover of Muscle and Fitness three times since 2018. I just, my... But my body hasn't really... I think it's gotten better, I think it's evolved, but, like, if you look at me 20 years ago and you look at me now, you're like, "Okay, like, very doable.
[00:35:30] Don Saladino: Not a..." You know, it's not like I went and put 50 pounds of muscle on, right? It's... I went off to college, I was 180 pounds. I left college, I was 215 pounds, and I'm, you know, was that all muscle? No. I've been roughly, I'm, like, 212 pounds now since then. Like, it... There hasn't been this massive change. Now, yes, we've improved mobility, we've improved some strength, power.
[00:35:50] Don Saladino: The endurance is different. Maybe I'm not as much of a runner, but maybe I do other things. And but, so you haven't really see that move much. But, you know, I, I, I think- When someone comes to me and they're like, "I wanna get on something," I, I, I'm just not the guy. Yeah. And I'm not the one you should... I- you should not be speaking to me about it, to be honest.
[00:36:08] Don Saladino: Like, I am a, I'm a coach. I know a lot about nutrition. I know a lot about body composition change and manipulating macros, and I am really good at that stuff. But if you wanna learn about peptides or hormone replacement therapy or, you know, or you're talking about getting on tren or something, like-
[00:36:25] Don Saladino: really extreme, I don't, I don't know shit about this. And the reason is, is I feel like unless I'm in your situation with your education, I shouldn't be talking about it. If someone asks me questions, I should say, "Go talk to Dr. Mike Nelson. Go talk to Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. Go t- go talk to Dr. Dwayne Jackson."
[00:36:43] Don Saladino: Yeah. "Go, go, go talk to someone who has, you know, who's well-versed and has studied these things, and has the right to discuss it. Don't talk to some trainer who's, you know, who's been taking stuff for a while and they wanna sound like a doctor, and they wanna actually sound like they have the answers, when the reality is, is they don't."
[00:36:59] Don Saladino: Like, you can't tell me you know how someone's gonna respond to anything they're gonna get on now in, in 10 years. We just respond differently. Like, are these things gonna metastasize cancer cells? Are you gonna... You might be able to live a full life getting on something, and you might suddenly... I've spoken to plenty of bodybuilders that are, like, 100%.
[00:37:17] Don Saladino: And I'm like, "What do you mean?" Like, "I was diagnosed with cancer five years ago. It was 100% 'cause I got on X, Y, or Z." And people don't wanna have this conversation, but how am I gonna turn to someone and be, "Well, research states that- ... you know, it hasn't really been proven yet." And I'm like, "Wait a second. You just spoke to five different people who are making the exact same claims."
[00:37:36] Don Saladino: Like, we need to take this research and it should allow us to think, and then make decisions based off of that research. It shouldn't be just a regurgitation of, well, because some scientist sat in a lab for the last nine weeks and performed this on 30 people, this is the answer, 'cause we've seen that contradict itself a lot, right?
[00:37:58] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah, and then, unless people work with it directly, you have no idea the amount of variability from one human to the next. I mean, I was just talking to Dwayne Jackson about this, and I love him. Best And we're both comparing notes of, like, I've seen some blood work on people who didn't do much at all, maybe a little bit of TRT plus, not real high levels, horrible blood markers.
[00:38:20] Dr. Mike T Nelson: We're like, "Holy shit." And I've seen people on, God, everything under the frigging sun, and I'm waiting on their blood work, and I'm just thinking, "Oh my God, I'm gonna have to call this person, this person. This is gonna be- Oh, God ... a fucking train wreck. I'm scared." And I look at it and I'm like, "There, there's no way this is your blood work.
[00:38:37] Dr. Mike T Nelson: There's no possible... Like, how is this physically even possible?" And again, these are both outliers, right? These are not normal. Yeah. But just the amount of variability you see, when you see the extremes too, from one to the next, it's, it's just so, so crazy. I don't think people understand that either.
[00:38:56] Don Saladino: No, and I, and I totally agree with you.
[00:38:58] Don Saladino: And, and, um, you know, I, I always get asked, "Well, you don't believe in this stuff, why aren't you taking it?" I'm like, "My bloods have been really good." Like, everybody's looked at my- Yeah, you're good. You're
[00:39:06] Dr. Mike T Nelson: good ...
[00:39:06] Don Saladino: like Dr. Dwayne Jackson has looked at my bloods for years, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon has looked at my bloods for years, and they're like, "Dude," like, "You're in a..."
[00:39:14] Don Saladino: They're like... I'm like, "What do I... You know, anything I need to improve?" And they're like, "No." I'm like- No? ... "Well, that's..." Yeah, like, you know, 49 years old and your, your T's at a great level, like, why am I gonna take T? So-
[00:39:24] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah ...
[00:39:24] Don Saladino: you know, I, I, I just... And what is that? Is that from, you know, me jumping on a, you know, on the fitness train for five years?
[00:39:30] Don Saladino: No, this is me doing this for the last 35, 40 years. This is me being an athlete as a kid, and then suddenly I'm going to college making really great food choices and never missing a workout, and never... Like, focusing on sleep, and I just got the bug. I never did this stuff because I thought I had to, I did it because it was like this, it was this quest to build this machine, and just it became fun for, for me.
[00:39:51] Don Saladino: And even with you, like, you know, we, we had those conversations- Mm-hmm ... and it's like, how do we improve this by 1%? Like, how do we just- Yeah ... get a little bit better, a little bit more efficient? And I, and I geeked out, and we were, you know, we've been talking a lot, and you've added so much value to, you know, especially a lot of my endurance work.
[00:40:07] Don Saladino: Where I was just like, "Wow, okay, this is... I'm glad, I'm, I'm glad you..." Like, I've started thinking about things with zone two and zone three, and then I'm talking to you and I'm like, "Holy shit," like- ... you're saying something that's, you know, very different from what normal people are saying, and it was kind of in my gut, and we're like, we're geeking out and having this conversation.
[00:40:25] Don Saladino: That to me is cool, because then the proof's in the pudding. Mm-hmm. Now it's, all right- You need to do X amount of zone two. This is where they're recommending zone two, but this is saying where my zone two is, which should really be zone three, so I need to live more. Let's see what starts happening when I'm exploring down that route of training in that, in those zones, and suddenly I feel myself getting in better shape, where what everyone else was saying, I felt like I was getting in worse shape.
[00:40:51] Don Saladino: And the proof's in the pudding. Like, but if I'm gonna sit there and I'm gonna listen to what, you know, doctor, you know, whatever, uh, you know, Dr. Rhonda Patrick's regurgitating online, not to, not to slam her, but like- Yeah, yeah ... you know, but like, if I'm, i- if she's saying something and it's like, well, it sounds like a definitive, well, that didn't apply to me- Mm-hmm
[00:41:08] Don Saladino: clearly. Um, it might apply to someone else. So that's the interesting thing about this industry, is we have to take the science and then you gotta become, you know, you gotta kind of, you know, run a little bit of your own lab and, and, and start putting this to use and then ask yourself, all right, h- how do you feel you're responding to this?
[00:41:26] Don Saladino: And then it's like, well, what are you doing nutritionally and what are you doing supplement-wise? There's all these other factors that makes it so difficult to make that determination in a short period of time. That's why I never understand a lot of these tests that happen in s- you know, three months, six months, whatever it is.
[00:41:41] Don Saladino: It's like, okay, like, you can find out, it can point you in a direction, but is it definitive? I don't know.
[00:41:47] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And I think that's what makes it fun because even talking to you, you're like, "Well, here's my VO2 max, here's my data, here's my, you know, DEXA, here's my BIA." And I was like, oh wow, this is great. So now you, it's easier to give a more qualified specific answer when you have the data.
[00:42:02] Dr. Mike T Nelson: And then even just like, "Okay, how did you feel after doing this?" "Oh, we did a few... Oh, this feels better." You know? And I think that's, to me, what makes it interesting- Mm-hmm ... both working with clients and even on yourself. Like, it's the, it's the never ending quest, no matter where you're at, to get just a little bit better in each area.
[00:42:22] Dr. Mike T Nelson: You can always add another pound to the bar. You could always- Sure ... improve this by a little bit and, but along the way you learn what works for you and what also works for others. Right. And I think that's what's hard about the industry is that there's, there's so much variability where we've got principles that work, but then people respond different, they have different stress levels, they have different psychology of what they can handle for change, and- Right
[00:42:46] Dr. Mike T Nelson: it's never, one person's never gonna be the exact same recipe as the last person.
[00:42:51] Don Saladino: The one area that I think, the, the one area that you shined the biggest light on for me was respiratory rate, because that was- Mm. Yeah ... something I was never really looking at. You'll be proud that my respiratory rate now is down to, like, I think it was at 17.8, I think it was that high, and I think I'm like right at low 16s now.
[00:43:08] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Oh, that's much better. Yeah.
[00:43:09] Don Saladino: Yeah. It's, it's already in, in a very short period of time, but I think, you know, when we start looking at zone two and- I, I think where it gets a bit confusing is everyone's like, "Well, this is, you know, this is restorative." And I'm like, when you're fatigued, you're fatigued. When you're training a lot- Yeah, you're fatigued.
[00:43:26] Don Saladino: Yeah ... when you're tired, you're tired. It doesn't mean 40 minutes of zone two, my heart rate for zone two is what? 137 to 140-ish. Mm-hmm. Like, 40 minutes of that, like, I'm still working. Like, I'm- Oh,
[00:43:36] Dr. Mike T Nelson: yeah ...
[00:43:37] Don Saladino: that's, that's throwing fatigue on top of fatigue. And I actually noticed that when I started cutting back on that, because, you know, I play hockey, I'm lifting five days a week, I'm on the track, I'm doing intervals, certain- when I started cutting back on that a little bit, I felt like I was slowing down that respiratory rate a bit, and I was kind of calming it down a little bit, and that's when I started seeing these slow drop in numbers.
[00:44:01] Don Saladino: And I'm like, all right, like, maybe it was just, maybe I was just doing too much work.
[00:44:06] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Mm-hmm.
[00:44:06] Don Saladino: You know? But it, I couldn't have been too much interval work, 'cause I wasn't doing much interval work, right? So- Yeah ... now I start cutting back on that. But, you know, who knows? Like, I'm still, I, I, I still haven't concluded my opinion on this, because maybe I get back on zone two, and maybe I cut back on a lot more of the intervals and the hockey, and maybe my respiratory rate slows down more.
[00:44:27] Don Saladino: May- but you start learning about your body, and you start, you know, um, you start following these trends, and then that's what help, starts helping you make decisions. But man, it's, there's a reason why there's not the set answer that everyone's handing to someone- Yeah ... saying, "Here, run with it." It's, that's obvious.
[00:44:42] Dr. Mike T Nelson: How do you do that when you're running a bigger gym and you're the person doing that? Do you put someone in charge of programming so that each person kinda has their own individual program, but they may be working in groups? Or how- Yeah ... what are your thoughts about that-
[00:44:57] Don Saladino: Yeah ...
[00:44:58] Dr. Mike T Nelson: how do you make that in reality?
[00:45:00] Don Saladino: So, so our, our model... So remember, we closed, I mean, my 15-year lease expired May 31st of 2020. So I got very lucky. I was re-signing my lease, and we launched a digital business that ended up doing way better than if we opened several clubs. So that was a business decision for me. I was gonna reopen, and, um, we decided not to, purely out of business and w- how we were feeling fulfilled.
[00:45:23] Don Saladino: But at that time, we were against the grain a bit, because a lot of these other smaller clubs were op- uh, were running, like, semi-private models or small group models or group models. And how I would categorize it is, like, semi-private, for those who don't know, is gonna be more of a, you know, it's one coach to say three or four people that are running their individual programs, but you're in there coaching them at the same time, and they're executing that.
[00:45:48] Don Saladino: Um, small group would be like, hey, all four, three or four people are coming in, running the same stuff, and the coach is training them, and then you have group, and then you have one-on-one. We ran mainly a, um, one-on-one model. We had a little bit semi-private going, a little bit. We were... And, um, we ran very little groups.
[00:46:08] Don Saladino: So group was something that we included in our membership. But if you look at, at the time, the average member at an Equinox was spending, say, 225, 225 bucks a month. At the end of the day, we only had 400 members, but the average member was spending about 1,000 a month. Now, it wasn't that we charged 1,000 per membership.
[00:46:25] Don Saladino: No, we charged 349 per membership, and you got a group class, and you got a semi-private, and you got a, an assessment, and you got free use out of our golf s- simulators. It was what was, it was the add-ons, right? So people would come in and spend 350, but then spend another, you know, $650 on, you know, additional training, and that was average.
[00:46:44] Don Saladino: So that was our model. I also know that if you're not owning a gym in New York City, which I don't really know many people that do, my friend Kenny Santucci does, but he's more of a, more of a s- um, a group training place. Mm-hmm. Um, I've never met anyone who's, um, been in the city running something o- of the size that I ran, and that was...
[00:47:06] Don Saladino: My one club was 15,000 feet, and then my other club was about 8,500 square feet. Oof. And that club, that, that club alone was just, um- Um, semi-private and, and group training. So we had a completely different model. But the bread and butter for us, it was the one-on-one. Our members were paying premium dollar, they were paying top dollar.
[00:47:26] Don Saladino: Um, we had a really good group of coaches. I had a, uh, a guy by the name of Chris Wikus that was heading our education. He's the one who developed our employ- our, our training handbook. He's the one that ran our mentorship program. We had a, we had a mentorship program, internship program, call it what you want, where coaches had to come work there for three months, and then we decided whether we wanted to hire them or not.
[00:47:46] Don Saladino: So it really became- Oh,
[00:47:47] Dr. Mike T Nelson: nice ...
[00:47:47] Don Saladino: yeah, it was very cool. So it really became a destination spot for coaches. Dr. Charlie Weingroff was heading the PT- Yep ... and he had two physical therapists underneath him. Uh, we had a phlebotomist. We were doing blood work out of there. This was starting in 2005. So
[00:48:01] Dr. Mike T Nelson: we were- And nobody was doing that then
[00:48:02] Don Saladino: No one was doing that then.
[00:48:03] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Nobody was doing that.
[00:48:04] Don Saladino: No, no, no one was doing that. I mean, I, I prided myself... I remember one of, uh, one of my friends came in and ruptured his pec doing dumbbell presses. He was on, he was on some other stuff also. I don't really know what he was on. But I turn around and I look at him, and his literally- Oh
[00:48:19] Don Saladino: his pec is sticking out. I'm like... He's like, "Uh..." And I'm like, "Oh, my God." I'm like, "Hold on." And I literally call HSS, and I called Jo- uh, Dr. Josh Dines, who was the surgeon for the, uh, New York Rangers and the New York Mets at the time, and I said... I sent him a picture, and he's like, "Send him up here right now."
[00:48:34] Don Saladino: And he sent him- Mm ... up here. And with, literally within three hours of leaving SoHo- Oh, damn ... within three hours I had a full MRI report back to me. Nice. That's impressive. So that was a lot of what people were coming to me for- Oh, yeah ... is I was, I was a lot more of this facilitator where like, "Don't tell me I can't get something done.
[00:48:50] Don Saladino: You need a coach in Dubai? You need a coach in Iceland? I don't care where it is, I don't care. I will assemble a team. I'll get someone to travel with you," whatever it was. And you know, we really, um, we really prided ourselves on that. But people tried to copy our model, repeat our model, and you can't because it was, it was very, um, it was, it was very celebrity niche driven.
[00:49:15] Don Saladino: It's just, it was a place where people came to and they just, they didn't wanna be worried about getting photographed. And when you have so many of them in there, it just be- it was another reason why we, we drove the price point, right? We, we just wanted to keep the people out of there that didn't care.
[00:49:29] Don Saladino: And it was funny, um, some of my celebs used to turn to me and be like, "We're like the poorest people in here." And we were like, we'd laugh and, and joke around about. But it really became a place about exclusivity. But trying to repeat that model, it, it just wasn't, um, it wasn't a repeatable thing. But it was fun and, um, I was very proud of it.
[00:49:45] Don Saladino: I mean, any person that, um, in the training world that came in there realized that, you know, we had a, we had a bunch of, you know, we had a bunch of really, really smart coaches out of there that took their, their jobs really seriously. And, um, that I was proud of
[00:49:59] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Do you wanna say what approximately your rent was on those facilities?
[00:50:02] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah, sure, yeah. 'Cause I think that'd be shocking to people. 'Cause the first time I heard it, I was like, "Holy shit."
[00:50:07] Don Saladino: Yeah, so I think, so o- on 495 Broadway, which was 15,000 feet, I think my last year's rent was closer to a million bucks. And I think my overhead, um, was about 2 million. Oh. So I had to make two mil- I had to make 2 million a year just to keep the place functioning.
[00:50:27] Don Saladino: Yep. And, um, I mean, my, my real estate taxes were 15,000 a month. I mean, I- Oh ... I have friends of mine that own gyms that are paying 3, $4,000 a month. I'm like, "What are you, serious?" Yeah, yeah. Like, that was my power. Like, what a joke, like. But, like, it, it also... It, it's not a bragging contest because this is, this is, this is business, and it's not- Mm-hmm
[00:50:46] Don Saladino: you know, sales are vanity, profit is sanity. It's like, I don't care what you're making, what's your overhead? But I was in that lease for 15 years. I had incredible contacts. I learned a ton about business. I also went through things that I don't think any human being's gonna go through if they go to Harvard Business School.
[00:51:03] Don Saladino: I mean, I had Con Ed shut my power down. I had American Express shut my cards down- Ugh ... for a couple years. Like, we, we were, we were battling with, um, you know, the city and- There were a lot of hurdles that you had to jump through. I mean, when I was opening, I had to get a BSA permanent, a peer permanent.
[00:51:19] Don Saladino: They're like, "What's that?" I'm like, "Board of Standard and Appeals." I'm like, "That I need to show that I'm not opening an illegal massage parlor," right? Like, I like... Because I had showers. No, this is New York City. I needed to, to file- Really? ... noise, noise compliance. I had to hire a guy by the name of Hiram Roth Krug to come down and make sure that when we were hitting balls in the simulators, that, that the, the, the sound wasn't echoing through walls.
[00:51:40] Don Saladino: Mm. I mean, there could've been a leak on the sixth floor and the landlord's looking at you saying, "This is your fault." I was on the second and third floor. Had nothing to do with me. You don't, like, people don't understand New York City. They, they... And I don't wanna downplay friends of mine who have clubs in different cities.
[00:51:55] Don Saladino: Yeah, yeah. But they just don't... You're not gonna go through, like... Like, I love my buddy Luka Hocevar, brilliant at what he does. Yeah. Luka's great. But he's in Oregon. I'm like, come on, Luka. Luka, he's like one of my closest friends, but I'm like, New York City against Oregon, they're just not... It's not comparable in, in what you have to go through.
[00:52:10] Don Saladino: Mm-hmm. And I hope Luka never has to go through that stuff. But again- Yeah ... you earn your stripes, and I have the right to speak in a way that I think most gym owners and most entrepreneurs in the fitness space just can't really speak from because, you know, they weren't in the digital space, they weren't in the brick and mortar space, and they weren't doing it in the city.
[00:52:27] Don Saladino: So I feel like, yeah, that, that's definitely allowed me to think a little bit differently than the next person.
[00:52:33] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. What do you think about the model now that's going back to kind of what you did with... There's a couple places in- Mm ... in New York like the blood work, and we have, like, one-on-one training, and we have nutrition.
[00:52:45] Dr. Mike T Nelson: It's kind of like this all-encompassing model is, like, the next big thing, and there's places that are more exclusive, and Equinox- Yeah ... even has, like, a program now and...
[00:52:55] Don Saladino: Oh, Equinox, Equinox, Equinox had their E Club years ago. I remember they were trying to charge 25,000 for, like, retinal eye entry and, like, all those sorts of things.
[00:53:02] Don Saladino: Oh, they've
[00:53:02] Dr. Mike T Nelson: had all sorts of crazy shit
[00:53:04] Don Saladino: over the years. Yeah. I don't, I don't, and I don't, and I'll, and I'll say I don't fully buy it. I, I, I also know that a lot of these facilities that are opening these places, to get a hold of people that are really, really, really good at what they do, they're not gonna go work at a f- facility like this, and it wouldn't make sense- No
[00:53:21] Don Saladino: for, you know, um... I don't wanna mention names because I, I have friends- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... of mine that invested in certain places. Mm-hmm. So I don't wanna talk. But, like, i- if you're opening this, this insane, you know- spot with physical therapy and, and training and blood optimization and nutrition. It's like what caliber, like all the really outstanding people are kind of off doing their own thing.
[00:53:45] Don Saladino: Every once in a while you're able to find a diamond in the rough and bring someone in that's really great, and they're able to kind of incorporate that into their system. But what I'm finding is that they're opening these facilities, and there's always one area that's really weak. There's no connectivity.
[00:53:58] Don Saladino: Mm-hmm. So I was just in Dubai at Zero 1 Zabeel. Mm. I was just at SHA in Cancun. I'm going to all these facilities right now, and I'm doing, you know, I'm working for the American Medical Association. I'm doing these audits on these organizations where I go in and I look at it from a tech component, and I look at it from a functionality component of how's the connectivity in all these different departments?
[00:54:17] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. I think that's the issue. And
[00:54:19] Don Saladino: that's, and that's where they're struggling. Like they're- Yep ... they're not, they don't know how to all play together. What they do is they'll come in and they'll offer all these services, but there's no true connectivity. They're like, "Well, who's your trainer?" "Well, we have a trainer in..."
[00:54:34] Don Saladino: "Oh, well, they're, are they in-house?" "No, they're not in-house." I'm like, "So you have this incredible doctor that's doing all this blood work, and you have these really nice PTs, but now you don't have the trainer on site? Like now, like that doesn't make sense to me." "Well, we're, we're still new." "Yeah, but you're-
[00:54:50] Don Saladino: marketing yourself as being the best. Like, why is that?" Yeah. Like when I went over to a, I went over to one place, um, a very long flight. It was probably like a 16-hour flight for me to get there. Oof. And I remember showing up and seeing all, again, I don't wanna mention the name-
[00:55:01] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah, yeah ...
[00:55:02] Don Saladino: but I remember walking into the facility, and it had, man, the recovery area was like remarkable, like phenomenal.
[00:55:09] Don Saladino: I got down to the gym floor and it was like, it was a nice gym floor. Like they had, they had enough. They had a nice sled area. They had nice racks, semi-decent bars. The dumbbells were fine. They had some good machines. I mean, it was a place that, you know, almost felt like a, um, you know, kind of like a, an Equinox type feel- Mm-hmm
[00:55:26] Don Saladino: but it was a little bit more hardcore, which, which I always appreciate. Um, and then when I went up to the recovery area one day, I was like, "Oh, um, I'd love to be able to jump in. I know they have red light. I know..." Which I own a red light bed here. Mm-hmm. They have cryotherapy. I owned a cryotherapy chamber for 10 years, and, uh, plunges and all this stuff.
[00:55:44] Don Saladino: And I went down the line, and they're like, "We're booked, we're booked, we're booked." Finally, I looked at them and I said, "Well, you have a Normatec section, right? Like I've got- Mm-hmm ... several pairs of Normatecs here." And like, "Yeah, but we have no one to put them on you." And I'm like- What? "It's n- I'm like, "It's Normatec."
[00:55:52] Don Saladino: Yeah, exactly. Like- Put 'em on you. ... you can
[00:55:58] Don Saladino: have, you can have the cleaning person like watch me put it on. Like I've been using Normatec before this place was even open. Like- Yeah ... so that's, and when I met with the CEO of the company, he's like, "What do you think?" I'm like This is a disaster. And he was like, "What do you mean?" I'm like, "I, I got off my plane at 10:00 PM.
[00:56:14] Don Saladino: You have three people standing at the juice bar checking no one in, and I asked them to make me a shake, and they said the protein bar's closed." No. And he was like, he was like this. I'm like, "Like what are you guys doing? Like this is, this is a disaster." And this isn't one place. Yeah. This is like all of them.
[00:56:29] Don Saladino: Like, I have not walked into one place yet where I'm like, "Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes." Like, everyone... And I'll go in and I'll test them a bit. Like, well, talking to the nutritionist, "Well, what's the tr- " "Well, we don't really talk to the, uh, to the training..." I'm like, "You don't, so, wait, but you're, you're, this is performance nutrition that you're trying to sell me right now, so you're not talking with the PTs, you're not talking with the strength coaches, you don't know what readiness means.
[00:56:55] Don Saladino: Like, what do we, what's going on here?" And I, and that's the main problem right now, is that you have these private equity people or these health fitness people who are maybe worth a lot of money-
[00:57:06] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Mm-hmm ...
[00:57:07] Don Saladino: come up with this, suddenly this idea that they think is different which is not different. It's been around forever.
[00:57:11] Don Saladino: And they try to establish this umbrella, right? This wellness concept and, you know, they realize it's really hard. It's really hard to find good people and to manage really good people, and that's where the challenge is always gonna be. You know, you bring coaches aboard, you, you bring nutritionists, you bring doctors.
[00:57:30] Don Saladino: How do you keep them entertained? How do you keep them feeling like they are a part of something long-term? 'Cause at one point, they are gonna resent the person whose name's on the wall, they're gonna wanna leave, they're gonna want more, they're gonna see you traveling somewhere around the world, and you're showing up to work, you know, getting in an Uber at 5:00 AM in February and being miserable.
[00:57:50] Don Saladino: And, you know, after a while, uh, burnout's really quick in this industry, and I think that's where these challenges are gonna be for a lot of these organizations.
[00:57:59] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah, and some of which I will obviously not name any names. It, the outside appears good. You look at the facility, you see all the pictures, you see- It's nice
[00:58:07] Dr. Mike T Nelson: the videos. You're like, "Oh wow, this is amazing." And then you're there in the places you, you know of what's going on in the background. You're like, "Oh my God, this is a flying poo show." Yeah. You know? It's like-
[00:58:19] Don Saladino: Oh, it's all bullshit. It- Yeah ... it's all, it's all, a lot of it's smoke and mirrors. And it's... And, you know, I almost look at it as I find such value in heart rate monitors, right?
[00:58:28] Don Saladino: Like you and I- Mm-hmm ... like, like we use heart rate monitors. We know what we're looking at. But, like, I wonder, like, if you went out to every human being that owns a heart rate monitor and you ask them like, "What are you using this for?" And they're like, "To measure heart rate." I'm like, "No shit." Yeah. "But what are you looking at?"
[00:58:42] Don Saladino: I would say, I bet at least 90% of them don't have a clue.
[00:58:47] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah.
[00:58:48] Don Saladino: I bet at least because most of the time, like even like I've walked into Orange Theories and specific places that have, I've never... You know, just to ask. I, I always like to- review, you know, test, call what you want Mm-hmm Like, "Oh, well, what are you guys looking at?"
[00:59:01] Don Saladino: "Well, we try and get you into this zone." I'm like, "Well, what's that based on?" "Well, it's based off of your age." I'm like, "Well, how do you determine what zone someone to be in?" They're like, like they don't know how to answer these questions. And, you know, it just shows that a lot of this stuff is, you know, it is smoke and mirrors.
[00:59:14] Don Saladino: It's, it's, it's marketing. It's, it's clickbait. It's getting people excited. Now, would I rather someone doing that than not doing anything? Yes. I mean, let's, yes, of course. Yeah,
[00:59:23] Dr. Mike T Nelson: yeah, yeah. For sure.
[00:59:23] Don Saladino: Like, social media's great, and we're able to really learn and somewhat... But, but don't, you know, what's that line?
[00:59:30] Don Saladino: You can't throw tits on a pig, or you can't throw lipstick on a pig or whatever. Lipstick on a pig. I like tits better. Um-
[00:59:36] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Pearls before swine.
[00:59:37] Don Saladino: Yeah, but, you know, but i- i- it's, a lot of this stuff, I mean, I, I, it is, it's a lot of smoke and mirrors, and I, I find that all these organizations really have the same problems.
[00:59:47] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And the biggest thing I've found just on a couple of them is that- ... this happens with elite level athletes too, like, there's no one in charge of integration. Mm-hmm. There's no one who knows enough about blood work, who knows enough about PT, who knows enough about training. They're not an expert in all those areas, but they know where their limits are, and they can talk to each one of the people and put together a, a plan.
[01:00:09] Dr. Mike T Nelson: And someone has to be, "Okay, the buck stops here. I'm the integrator," or it's a team. A
[01:00:13] Don Saladino: connector, whatever. Yeah. Connector. Exactly.
[01:00:14] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah, or however you, you define it. They just assume that, well, if we do blood work and we do recovery and we do th- that it'll all just magically work out. Yeah. And I'm like-
[01:00:23] Don Saladino: IVs don't fix it.
[01:00:24] Don Saladino: I- IVs don't fix all these problems. And you know what? I'm sorry. Peptides aren't gonna cure everything.
[01:00:30] Dr. Mike T Nelson: No.
[01:00:30] Don Saladino: And hormone replacement therapy isn't gonna cure everything. After a while, in my opinion, and please disagree with me, but someone's coming in with issues, you gotta get to the root of the problem.
[01:00:43] Don Saladino: You know? Mm-hmm. A- a- and you can't always d- you can't always inject someone with something and think that that's gonna fix things. Like, saunas are not gonna fix all your problems. Cold plunges are not gonna fix- No ... all your... Someone's coming in there, and they're buy- they're b- they wanna get on BPC-157. My, my first question in my head is like, why do you need it?
[01:01:01] Don Saladino: Why- Yeah, why? ... are you in so much pain? Like, what is going on in your life that warrants you to have to start taking a peptide at 38 years old? Like, maybe you need to step back and look at lifestyle, look at your training, look at the things you're doing, how you're loading, and say, "There could be a problem here."
[01:01:16] Don Saladino: But a lot of people don't want that. They just want this, they, they want this crutch.
[01:01:20] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. I mean, the amount of people on just one-off consults I've tried to talk out of TRT. And not that I'm against it, I mean, there's definitely a medical need and-
[01:01:27] Don Saladino: Absolutely.
[01:01:28] Dr. Mike T Nelson: 100% ... there's times it can absolutely be useful.
[01:01:30] Dr. Mike T Nelson: But I'm like, "Bro, you're sleeping five hours a night, you're drinking eight cups of coffee a day, your training is a disaster, your nutrition's a floating trash bin fire. Like, I got a re- I, I have a pretty good idea why your testosterone's 285."
[01:01:46] Don Saladino: You know, it's funny, years ago I remember, um, we w- uh, one of the clinics that we were working with, uh, that we were sending people for IV treatments, when I became really good friends with, uh, Gabrielle Lyon, one of my best friends- Yeah ... Doc- Dr. Lyon. Um, I remember this had to be 15, 16 years ago. I remember one of my clients Massive drinker, massive eater.
[01:02:07] Don Saladino: And, you know, we were, we were heavy into the blood work thing then. I mean, so this is 20- uh, 2011, so we were- Mm ... already doing that probably five, six years with the phlebotomist in the club, but I wanted to get him up here. And I remember him looking at me, he spent however many thousand dollars on all the bloods, and he's like...
[01:02:25] Don Saladino: I'm like, "What?" He's like, "I just spent three grand for someone to tell me to, you know, cut back on the drinking, sleep more- ... and get higher protein." Yeah. And I kind of looked at him and I was like, "All right, you're right." Like, it's just... And that's when I started realizing that sometimes bloods can scare the shit out of people and push them in a direction where they...
[01:02:41] Don Saladino: And I think everyone needs to get blood work every single- Yeah, yeah ... I, I 100%. I, I get mine at least probably twice a year. Mm-hmm. But, um, I think you also gotta know your client and know where you're sending them and, and, y- you know, uh, uh, i- in the beginning of my career, I was definitely enamored by a lot of this stuff, and, um, I, I still think it's phenomenal, but I'm, I'm also very, "All right, let's, where we at?
[01:03:03] Don Saladino: What's going on?" Before I'm turning around just saying, "Go up and get all this crazy blood." Plus, there's much cheaper ways to do it now, right? Um, but, um, you know, I, I, I definitely learned a lot from that.
[01:03:12] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And there's some places now, I won't name any names, that are hyper aggressive towards, like, TRT replacement, that kind of stuff.
[01:03:22] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Like, I had a, a former client, he's like, he went to one of these places, got his bloods done, came back to me and he's like, he's like, "Yeah," he's, "They said my testosterone's 580 and I'm not optimized, that I should consider TRT." I'm like, "What the hell are you talking about?" My baby. Like- And I'm like, "You're probably fine.
[01:03:42] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Do you have any symptoms?" "Nope." "Any reason to complain?" "Nope." Showed me all of his blood work. And I'm like, "You also mentioned that you may want to have kids coming up soon."
[01:03:52] Don Saladino: Right. "
[01:03:52] Dr. Mike T Nelson: So for God's sake, like, talk to a decent physician. T- you know, at least think this through. I'm not saying do it, I'm not saying not do it, but you know, make sure your physician knows this.
[01:04:02] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Like, you're probably fine. You don't have any reason really to do it." And he's like, "Oh, but, but they said that this was low and I wasn't good enough," and I'm like, "Argh," you know?
[01:04:10] Don Saladino: Yeah. Just- No, it's, i- i- i- it's very tough, right? Because you're going into this position, you're in this position where a lot of people are vulnerable, and they wanna feel better, and they wanna...
[01:04:19] Don Saladino: You know, listen, there, there is something, people get excited about, you know, taking that new vitamin or that new pill or- Oh,
[01:04:24] Dr. Mike T Nelson: for sure ...
[01:04:24] Don Saladino: you know, you know, getting on something. But um, I remember years ago, I mean, my testosterone was as low as 680. That's probably the lowest I ever remember it.
[01:04:34] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Oh, that's great.
[01:04:34] Don Saladino: And, right, this was probably, it had to be close to 10 years ago, and I recently I think I had it tested at, like, 930, and I've never taken it. And um, I actually compared the blood to when they were talking with Gabrielle Line about it, and they're like, "What did you do? What did you do?" Get, "Oh, no, I didn't get
[01:04:48] Don Saladino: Well, was it the saunas? You're doing a lot more saunas now." I'm like, "No." I'm like, "You know, I went from waking up at probably 3:00 AM for six years." You know? Yeah. 3:00 AM- Sleep ... and, and, and, and not being able to pay my bills and almost missing 37 consecutive payrolls- To, you know, living outside on a beautiful property.
[01:05:05] Don Saladino: I'm on two and a half acres. I'm right by the water. Like, I have an amazing family. We've got a successful business. Like, I sleep now till, you know, anywhere between maybe early for me is 5:00, and sleeping in the other day I did 6:30. So imagine being able to improve your sleep and stress by that much over the last couple years, and continuing to dial things in with nutrition.
[01:05:24] Don Saladino: And it's okay. I'm doing a lot more saunas. I'm doing these things- Mm-hmm ... which I think is like, I think it's like the cherry on top of the whipped cream. Sure. Like, I, I think these things are great, and I think they're, I think they're fantastic, but they're not, you know, I don't think they're gonna give me the return that adding two to three hours of sleep a night gave me, so, and, and eliminating stress.
[01:05:41] Don Saladino: So again, like, like, I think people need to be a little bit more intelligent, and I think before going into a clinic and just immediately surrendering and saying, "All right, I trust these people," I, I think you really need to understand, like, why are you in the situation you're in?
[01:05:57] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Mm-hmm.
[01:05:57] Don Saladino: Right? And, and, like, do you really wanna improve this?
[01:06:01] Don Saladino: And yeah, like, are you gonna accept that you could potentially get on something? If you don't know this clinic, do you really know what you're putting in your body? And how's that... What type of dividend is that gonna pay to you in the next several years? And I, I think you gotta own that. And I got friends of mine that are powerlifters, that are, you know, that, you know, put anything in their body, and they own it.
[01:06:21] Don Saladino: Oh, yeah. They don't give a sh- But they don't give a shit. They're like, "Listen, I'm s-" And they're very smart. Very, very smart. But they're like, "No, this is what I do. This is what I love to do. I don't care. I didn't think I was gonna live to 40, you know. I'm, I'm, I'm 45 now, and I don't give a shit." And they just, they have a different outlook on life.
[01:06:36] Don Saladino: We're very close. I love them very much, but they own it. They own their decisions. But I think a lot of people are just a little too trusting with, uh, the wrong people.
[01:06:47] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And I think it's just, at the end of the day, I think people should be, have the freedom to do what they wanna do. Just for God sakes, make educated decisions.
[01:06:54] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Like, put some time and effort into it. And like, as a TRT, the question I always have them is, like, go back to your doc and ask them, "If you do want to go off later in life, is that possible? What would we do? What are the risks?" You know, "What are some of the negatives too?" 'Cause there's a small percentage of people who even just on TRT doses, like, they just get shut down forever.
[01:07:16] Dr. Mike T Nelson: It's not very many people, it's not happens that often, but just again, do your time, and if you don't like the one physician, you can find another physician. Like, that's okay. Like, just put your time and effort, be educated, and make your own decision.
[01:07:30] Don Saladino: You know, the other day I saw something on Men's Health.
[01:07:32] Don Saladino: I'm trying to pull it up because I'm on their advisory board, but I was, I was... And I'm very good friends with Eb Samuel- Mm-hmm ... um, the, um, head fitness editor over there. But they were... You know, they've been pushing a lot more of the TRT. Yeah, right, right now I'm looking at this post two days ago. 70% of men say their testosterone levels are important to them.
[01:07:52] Don Saladino: 49% of men believe their testosterone levels are a message of their masculinity. So now- Yeah. ... you see they're really, really, really, you know, Men's Health Testosterone Nation. You know Pat Davidson, one of my great friends- Yeah ... down here. We love Pat. I love Pat. Pat's brilliant. Pat owns it. Pat knows- Oh, yeah.
[01:08:11] Don Saladino: to do what he's doing- Yeah ... and he's fine with it, and we've been very open about it. But, you know, now I, I think, you know, everyone, it's... This was something that wasn't- accepted and now it's accepted. I think there's a danger to that, because- Mm-hmm ... now I think that just, you know, this becomes a little bit of, um, um, it's like a little bit of a melee.
[01:08:33] Don Saladino: Everyone's like, "Oh, fuck it," you know, "The, the hell with it." Like, let's just, we can take it, it doesn't matter. Now people are like, "Oh, everyone's on it", right? I, I, I don't, I- it's very beneficial to, to a lot of people. Like J- uh, some of my friends who were at war, they were blown up in Afghanistan. For sure.
[01:08:49] Don Saladino: You know, 100%. I, I just, I want people to think and I want people to make smart decisions, and I want people to know who they're, you know, going and who their doctor is and who they're getting, you know, um, their hormone replacement therapy from. Like, I want them to make those good decisions. And, um, and I want them to be careful and I want them to respect the process, but also understand if you're doing this for help, right?
[01:09:13] Don Saladino: It doesn't mean you can turn around and continue to live the lifestyle you're living if you're abusing yourself. Like, it's just, you're going to be back in the same boat in a few years. And, and that's, that's, that's, that's my whole point in all this. This is, that, that's, that's my point I'm trying to get across, is just, you know, you know, respect it.
[01:09:30] Don Saladino: Like, be responsible, be smart, and, um, try and make a good decision.
[01:09:36] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. I feel like total testosterone now is like the male equivalent of how much you bench.
[01:09:45] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Remember those days? Because before, no one used to know what their, their levels were, and now it's just like this, "Oh, well I'm this, well I'm that." I'm just
[01:09:51] Don Saladino: like- And you know what, but you know, you're running into people that, like, have never been able to get into shape, and they're in shape. So it's like, how are you looking at that?
[01:09:57] Don Saladino: Well, they weren't able to... Well, okay. Like, they're in shape now. Shoot the alligator closest to the boat. Like, I've- I've, I have friends of... I have f- I have a friend of mine who's 67 years old and was 525 pounds, and, uh, he came in here four years ago and, um, he's, like, one of my very good buddies, and we've been helping him out and, you know, he's lost, like he's down to about 370 pounds.
[01:10:18] Don Saladino: He's at the point now where I'm like, "God, get on peptides." I'm like begging him. I'm like, "Just get on it," because it's been four years, he's at a standstill. He's not doing anything. Not doing T. His T's fine, actually, but he's like- Mm ... I'm, "Get on a, get on a GLP-1." Yeah. "Do something." And he's like, "No, I want to do it on my own."
[01:10:36] Don Saladino: And I'm like, "You can't." Like, you're, you're, you're- Yeah ... you're not... Like, people don't understand, when you're walking around with 200 extra pounds on your frame- Like, I've worked, I worked with a woman once that was 872 pounds.
[01:10:48] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Oof.
[01:10:48] Don Saladino: Like, uh, like imagine that. Like imagine- Oof ... walking around with that much more weight on your frame.
[01:10:53] Don Saladino: Like, your back's killing you all day. Your knees are killing you all day. You can't get out of bed without being out of breath. Think about, think about what's happening to your respiratory rate. Oh,
[01:11:01] Dr. Mike T Nelson: yeah.
[01:11:02] Don Saladino: Think about all these things that are gonna be negatively affected. Like, imagine, and I worry, the guy's 67.
[01:11:06] Don Saladino: He's still really young. But- Mm-hmm ... you don't see people that weight living in their 70s. Like they don't- No, yeah ... really make it, right? I, I was talking to a guy at a funeral home once, and he said, "How many people do you think that weigh over..." You know, he gave me a certain number. It was like 275 pounds, over 55.
[01:11:20] Don Saladino: And I'm like, as clients? I'm like, "Yeah." He's like, "Yeah." He's like, "Well, probably a lot." He goes, "They don't make it that long." You know, he's, his point was- Mm ... that a certain weight at a certain age, they kick. So right now my buddy is playing with house money, and I'm just like, "Shoot the alligator closest to the boat, man."
[01:11:33] Don Saladino: Like, get, get on something, lose that weight, live a higher quality of life, be able to move and, you know, exercise more freely and not have a- you know, all these conditions and being in the hospital every two weeks. So trust me, I'm, I am a proponent of it. It, but, uh, it's gotta be, you know, for me it's, you know, who and why.
[01:11:50] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Last question as we wrap up, like, what are your thoughts about all the recovery studios and just recovery seems like it's a, a big thing now. It's almost like it's sort of like the new gyms are recovery centers, sort of. It's
[01:12:07] Don Saladino: like the new happy hour.
[01:12:09] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah.
[01:12:09] Don Saladino: Well, that's the way I'm looking at it. You know?
[01:12:11] Don Saladino: It's, it's, if, if a group of people, like there's this place called Othership that I just saw in, uh, Toronto. It was incredible. It was, like, this wild, like, sauna, it's like this sauna studio. Hm. It's almost like a club at night. Like, couples are going in there and they're playing music, and everyone's, like- Oh, nice.
[01:12:26] Don Saladino: That sounds fun ... sweating and hanging out. Oh, it's a blast, right? Yeah. It's totally, like if I was single, I'd be, like, there every night. Like, 100%. But, um, you know, it's one of those spots. But it also, um, wow, like I- I'm so happy about that because people are just thinking differently. Like, my kids' generation are not drinking, you know?
[01:12:42] Don Saladino: Mm-hmm. They're, they're just not. Like-
[01:12:44] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah, alcohol sales are way down ...
[01:12:45] Don Saladino: they're way down. But, like, my, my son now, him and his friends come over here every day. They train. They're in the red light bed when they're not working. They're in the sauna when they're not working, and then they go work jobs and they do other thing.
[01:12:55] Don Saladino: But they're just living differently. So for that, I'm really happy. But, you know, I don't, I don't know. I mean, what's everyone trying to recover from? It's, it's, I, I just think it's a nice... I, I'm not as- I think a lot of people are critical about it 'cause they're like, "Oh, what are you trying to recover from?"
[01:13:12] Don Saladino: And, "Why do you need all this recovery?" Like, if you wanna go sit in a sauna and you wanna jump in a cold plunge every day, that's gonna make you feel good, like go for it. Yeah,
[01:13:18] Dr. Mike T Nelson: go for it.
[01:13:19] Don Saladino: Am, am I gonna... Like, I remember when I started working in the city back in 1999, I used to walk home, um, I worked at Equinox for one year in 1999, and I used to walk home from 76th and Amsterdam to 57th between 8th and 9th, which is my first apartment in- Mm
[01:13:33] Don Saladino: the city. Um, actually it was a year, I'm lying, a year after. When I left Equinox I made enough money to then be able to afford that place. The first year I was commuting. But right around, you know, what is, whatever it was, 2000, I'd walk home every night from 72nd and Amsterdam to, um, 57th and, um, between 8th and 9th, and it was probably a 20, 25-minute walk.
[01:13:54] Don Saladino: One of the nicest walks you're ever gonna do in Manhattan. At, especially at like 7:00, 8:00 at night, like unbelievable, like, and on a summer night. People are just dining outside and drinking in bars and hap- and people are just having a nice time. But I, I just, it was a lifestyle that I'd never lived. I was coming home from work and people were, and I was worried about my meals and my training and getting to bed and waking up early, and people were just drinking.
[01:14:17] Don Saladino: And now it's just, you're just not seeing it anymore. So I'm super happy about it because I feel like society is getting a little healthier, and if people are gonna wanna go sit in a sauna or sit in, uh, the, the Turkish or the Russian bathhouse- Mm-hmm ... you know, at 6:00 PM rather than being, you know, at some Irish pub, like I'm all for it.
[01:14:34] Don Saladino: But, you know, when you wanna start diving into it and when people are looking at recovery as a means to fix all their problems, like peptides or like hormone replacement therapy, it just doesn't always work that way. And that's all, I'm not negative on it, I'm just saying it doesn't always work that way.
[01:14:49] Don Saladino: You gotta get to the root of the problem if there is a problem, and there's other things that are gonna pay way bigger dividends, um, than these things. And, you know, if you're going into a clinic and you're getting on specific, uh, hormone replacement therapies for 10 years, uh, what... This always scares the shit out of me.
[01:15:06] Don Saladino: How, how, what's happening in your body from, 10 years from being on... I buried my best friend in
[01:15:12] Dr. Mike T Nelson: 2010. Mm.
[01:15:12] Don Saladino: Tommy Jacob. Telling you right now, this is my closest friend. I have his mask card right here on my wall, on- Oh ... on my wall, right? He was my, he was my coach. He was also my head trainer at the time. Born August 12th, 1967, died July 26, 2010.
[01:15:27] Don Saladino: I buried him. He had no family. I was all over his lease and his phone bills, and when I... I had to claim his body down at City Hall. Mm. It took me two weeks. Two weeks to claim his body. Two weeks? Then I had to go identify him-
[01:15:44] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Oh ...
[01:15:45] Don Saladino: in person, otherwise he was gonna be buried in Potter's Field- Mm ... which is where all the no-names go.
[01:15:51] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yep.
[01:15:52] Don Saladino: Potter's, Potter's? I think it's Potter's Field.
[01:15:54] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Potter's, yeah.
[01:15:55] Don Saladino: Yeah. Um, so- Um, h- wh- when I had his, we had his body, you know, we, we had an autopsy on his body. His testosterone was north of 3,000. 3,000? Oof. 3,000 Now, I don't want, uh, save that bullshit. And, "Oh, well, that's no, there's no proven, there's no evidence."
[01:16:20] Don Saladino: Stop. Stop. Shh, everyone. Shh. Like, for all you people, uh, like, stop. Like, this guy, I saw him years beforehand. So he died in 2010. I'd say 2007, 2008, he started having health problems. He was not going to a clinic. He did not have a doctor prescribing this stuff. And I don't even know if many of these doctors know what they're doing.
[01:16:42] Don Saladino: Like, they're kind of creating their own protocols. He felt like he was his own doctor. He looked at me a year before he passed, he goes, "If something happens to me, you gotta make sure I'm handled." I'm like, "Stop it, stop it, stop it. You're gonna be fine. You're gonna be fine." But there were days he'd come into the gym, and he was laying on the table in the back.
[01:17:00] Don Saladino: I remember he'd be, he'd come in, he'd tell me he was having sex with a woman the night before for three hours and nothing was happening. Like, he was literally like a zombie. And his sk- he got super pale, and he looked super sick. And finally, I went to Vegas to, to visit my now wife when we were dating in, um, actually, uh, 2010.
[01:17:18] Don Saladino: I'm sorry, we were married in 2010. So I went to Vegas. She was there with my kids. And, um, I went there on a Friday. We were supposed to train together Monday. I flew home on a red-eye Sunday night. I got to my club the next morning at, like, from the airport, I came right in. So I probably landed at 5:00 and got to the airport about, like, 6:15, 6:30, and he wasn't there.
[01:17:42] Don Saladino: He had a 6:15 client. Mm. So we went up to his apartment. He was dead in his bed.
[01:17:45] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Oh.
[01:17:46] Don Saladino: He died, they, they, they said Friday night he probably passed. But for me, that always scared the shit out of me, 'cause I saw him have open- Oh, yeah ... I saw him have open heart surgery at 37 years old. Oof. So that was, that was probably 2000, uh, what's the math on that?
[01:18:00] Don Saladino: If he died in 2010, I don't know, he's probably, you know- Mm ... three, four years before any open heart surgery. So he started going through a lot of problems. And it was all because he was just not really monitoring these things the way that he should be monitoring it. And I just, I, I, I just have a different outlook on most people, uh, than, than most people.
[01:18:19] Don Saladino: And if you wanna justify it, if you wanna come to me and you wanna argue with me, I'm not gonna do that with you. You, you have your own life. You can do what you choose that you wanna do. But, uh, if someone doesn't need it, don't take it. And I question right now how many people are on it that actually don't need to be on it.
[01:18:34] Don Saladino: That's all
[01:18:34] Dr. Mike T Nelson: I'm saying. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I, I agree. And my pet peeve with it is that it, you reach this sort of almost tipping point where it's becoming the new normal, right? Where before it used to be kind of an outlying thing, and now, I don't know, just the way people talk about it makes me feel like they're not treating it as a serious thing.
[01:18:59] Dr. Mike T Nelson: They're not doing- They're not ... their due diligence. They're not doing their education. They're- But they don't wanna ... I'm not okay with making uninformed decisions.
[01:19:06] Don Saladino: But they don't wanna But
[01:19:08] Dr. Mike T Nelson: no, that's the thing. They don't want to do that
[01:19:10] Don Saladino: They want... I, I think about how many people out there just want them, "Just tell me what, tell me what I should do.
[01:19:15] Don Saladino: Give me my train- training program. Give me my diet. Just tell me what you want me to do." And there's more of those people out there than I think You know, than people who actually wanna, like, really understand and do their due diligence. People... And that's, and that's scary because this is a serious thing.
[01:19:32] Don Saladino: This is a serious thing, and I don't think it's being treated as a serious thing. I think it's almost being treated as, like, the days of people just going out and having a cocktail or two. Like, "Oh, no big deal." Like, it's like- Yeah. I don't know. I... We could- I would love to, you know, I'd love to talk to you some more about it, and actually get...
[01:19:48] Don Saladino: I know you and I talked about peptides a bit, but-
[01:19:50] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Mm-hmm ...
[01:19:52] Don Saladino: I really wanna get your opinion on, you know, who, you know, who should be taking this, and when do you feel like it's good and it's not good? And, you know, you know, where's that, you know, where's your thought process kinda leading you towards? So that, that I'm interested on.
[01:20:07] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. My short answer on that is I, I'm okay with people making whatever decision they make as long as they're educated on the pros and cons. And I think at the end of the day, everybody has their own risk tolerance that they have to decide. Like, for, like, I think I mentioned to you before, like, I've, I've done five glasses of ayahuasca in Costa Rica and had frog poison stuck in my arm in the name of combo.
[01:20:33] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Now, would I recommend anyone to do either one of those things? Uh, hell no. No. I would not recommend you to do those. But, you know, we did our due diligence, we knew the person, et cetera, et cetera. People we went to had gone there before. And, you know, certain things, I think, if done in context, in a right environment, can be much safer.
[01:20:56] Dr. Mike T Nelson: But again, I haven't done any TRT, haven't done any other peptides other than that. No other reason than I just kind of drew a line there for, y- you know, nothing that I can justify beyond that. And I think each person has to decide what are their limits in what area, and what are they willing to accept some risk for.
[01:21:16] Don Saladino: Do you think you'll ever take it, or are you just right now it's a two? It's like, if they, if they have more sciences on it and there's more data and you get more and more comfortable with it, like, would you embrace peptides, say?
[01:21:26] Dr. Mike T Nelson: I think possibly. The big thing I don't like about peptides right now is there's just too many unknowns.
[01:21:32] Dr. Mike T Nelson: And again- Yeah ... I think BPC-157's been around long enough. You know, if I had a major injury and the option was surgery or do a course of BPC and TB-500, yeah, I probably would, you know? I mean, if that were the options. Um, for TRT, like, I don't, I don't have any reason to do it.
[01:21:52] Don Saladino: Right.
[01:21:53] Dr. Mike T Nelson: And I'm definitely afraid of needles.
[01:21:56] Don Saladino: Oh, are you?
[01:21:57] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah. I, I... Donate blood, I'm j- I turn white as a ghost. Mm. I just tell them, "Okay." I never pass out, just look away. Like, I can't... I'm fine with watching blood and have done multiple dissections, fresh tissue dissections. Doesn't bother me at all. But there's some weird thing about someone who puts the needle in me that I just, uh, I just don't like it
[01:22:17] Dr. Mike T Nelson: You just don't like it.
[01:22:18] Don Saladino: That's funny. I used to be superstitious in, in high school 'cause I, I, I played college baseball. Mm. And, um, in high school I was, I was a pitcher, but I ended up playing, um, you know, I p- I ended up playing, not pitching in, um, in college. But you could never inject my right arm.
[01:22:32] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Oh.
[01:22:33] Don Saladino: Like, uh, and it was, it was funny 'cause all the nurses I would go to when I'd g- blood work, they knew me for years, since I was a little kid.
[01:22:38] Don Saladino: They were at my wedding, and they'd always go to the left arm 'cause I'd do it the right. And I was, like, superstitious. Like, "Don't inject my right arm." Very, very funny. And they were like, "You have great veins," even as a young kid. They were like, they all loved my veins, so they all loved me, but no, I appreciate it.
[01:22:51] Don Saladino: This has been fun.
[01:22:52] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah, awesome. Thank you so much. Where can people learn more about you? I know you got a bunch of online programs. You got all sorts of
[01:22:56] Don Saladino: stuff. Yeah, appreciate it. Appreciate it, man. Uh, you know, donsaldino.com. My Instagram's the same. Um, it's been a pleasure, man, really. I'm grateful for your knowledge, and it's, it's incredible.
[01:23:06] Don Saladino: You get someone around, uh, you, you get around someone like you and you realize h- you know, there is so much to learn in the industry, but I think- Oh, it's never ending ... your viewpoint is so ... But it's so refreshing. Your viewpoint is so refreshing because you understand that, you know, the science, it's like a lot of it isn't definitive.
[01:23:22] Don Saladino: And even what- No ... your answer on BPC-15- it's not definitive. And when someone's answering in definitives, I'm always like, "Eh." It's, uh, I have a difficult time with it, but.
[01:23:30] Dr. Mike T Nelson: Yeah, especially when you've looked at, like, oh, there's, like, seven studies on that, all from one area in Croatia from the same lab. And it's like, okay, that just- Like, oh, really?
[01:23:38] Dr. Mike T Nelson: sounds a little suspect. That doesn't help me. Oh, really?
[01:23:41] Don Saladino: I love it. Yeah. Mike, thank you. As always, thanks. I'll, um, I'll check in with you, uh, I'll check with you in a few days. We, we- Yeah ... always talk. It's
[01:23:47] Dr. Mike T Nelson: always great. Yeah, awesome. Thank you so much. All right, brother. Appreciate it.
[01:23:49] Don Saladino: Take care, bye. Bye-bye.