Sam Brown spends his days training Air Force pilots and aircrew who run on nicotine, caffeine, and alcohol — and almost never turn off their nervous system. He reveals why the toughest operators need recovery just as much as intensity, how he sneaks down-regulation into workouts disguised as hard training, and what years of coaching in Altus, Oklahoma taught him about real performance under extreme cognitive load.
Samuel Brown, M.Ed., CSCS is a Cognitive Performance Specialist for the U.S. Air Force and a strength and conditioning professional who has worked everywhere from collegiate athletics to elite tactical units.
Sam spends his days training Air Force pilots and aircrew who run on nicotine, caffeine, and alcohol — and almost never turn off their nervous system. In this episode he reveals why the toughest operators need recovery just as much as intensity, and what years of coaching in Altus, Oklahoma taught him about real performance under extreme cognitive load.
Expect to learn what Air Force pilots are actually like to train, why the nicotine-caffeine-alcohol "trifecta" dominates military performance culture, how the physical act of flying itself takes a hidden toll through vibration and posture, why sympathetic nervous system domination cements poor posture and movement patterns, how Sam sneaks down-regulation into hard training sessions disguised as recovery work, and why resting heart rate might be a better performance metric than any wearable, and much more.
Connect with Sam:
https://www.instagram.com/sambrownstrength
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[00:00:00] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Welcome back to the Flex Diet Podcast. I’m your host, Dr. Mike T. Nelson. On this podcast, we talk about all things to increase muscle, improve performance, improve body composition, do all of it within a flexible framework without destroying your health. Today, we’ve got a strength and conditioning coach, Sam Brown.
[00:00:20] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: You might be familiar with his stuff through Elite FTS, where he did a ton of super cool educational, uh, videos while he was there. Uh, he is now working with pilots in the military down in Altus, Oklahoma. And while you might not be a pilot for the military, I think you can learn a lot from this podcast because this is a population that, while they do have some special requirements, I’m willing to bet, at least from my work with other people, this is gonna transfer to you in terms of things to do when you’re highly stressed.
[00:00:55] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: You might be compressed, uh, for time. You might have cognitive overload from work. Uh, these are all things that he’s working with them and dealing with. So I’m willing to bet that this will also transfer to your situation or, uh, with clients that you work with. So I think you’ll really enjoy this conversation.
[00:01:17] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Again, we’ve, you know, talk about all things strength and conditioning, down regulation, recovery. Uh, we, uh, even give some pretty funny stories of our good buddy, uh, Cal Dietz. Uh, you can check out the Triphasic 2 training book, uh, myself and Cal Dietz wrote. Uh, just go to triphasic2.com for that. And if you want more information from me, uh, go to miketnelson.com/newsletter.
[00:01:44] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: It’s the best place to hop on and get all of the latest and greatest information. So without further ado, here’s our fun and wide-ranging strength and conditioning conversation. My buddy, Sam Brown. Enjoy
[00:01:58] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Hey, buddy Hey. How are, how we doing? I’m good. How are you, sir? Ah, living the dream, man. Living the dream. Oh, that’s good. Just turning my phone off here before I freaking forget and it starts going off during the podcast. Okay. Always tends to happen. Oh, so sounds like you’ve been pretty busy. Yeah, man, it’s, it’s been pretty crazy.
[00:06:32] Sam Brown: Uh, life has a way of reminding you of how busy you really can be. Yeah, which I guess in this business is better than the alternative. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s, it’s funny, I mean, I’ve been out in Oklahoma now for about two years, and I thought I knew how to coach people, and then you run into groups of people and, and airmen and pilots that- Ooh
[00:06:58] Sam Brown: don’t sleep, don’t eat well, and you have to come up with ways to get them to perform. Oh. So it’s been quite the, it’s been quite the challenge, in, like, the best way possible, so. Yeah. That’s awesome. Um, yeah, the podcast’s pretty informal. Is there anything in particular you wanted to, to touch on in particular?
[00:07:17] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: I mean, I’ve got some ideas obviously, but… Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I, I’m… I mean, I’ve been doing podcasts for a while. Yeah If we can just kinda freewheel it and see where it goes Cool. All right. Well then, so you got one hour? Is that, that good? Yeah, absolutely. That works for me. Perfect. Awesome. Well, I’ll just do a short pause and, uh, away we go
[00:07:38] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Awesome, and welcome back to the podcast. How are you today, Sam? Ah, fantastic. How are you doing? I’m doing good. We were just talking before about how being busy is a good thing- Yeah … other than it’s busy. Yeah. It’s, it’s funny. The, uh, the, the line of work I’m in now, I’m working with air crew, so pilots and boom operators, load masters for the Air Force.
[00:08:03] Sam Brown: And, you know, prior to, I was primarily working with athletes, and- Yeah … athletes have a tendency of almost catastrophizing things, being like, “Oh, it’s the hardest thing I’ve ever done.” And now I’m talking to people that have 18-hour, 24-hour duty days. They’re crossing five or six time zones, and they’re living off of like monster energy drinks and a prayer.
[00:08:25] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Yeah. So now it’s like how do we make sure we build that resilience? And not only that, j- I mean, Altus, Oklahoma is currently about 110 degrees most days out of the week, so it’s, it’s like it’s been quite a trip, man. It’s been quite a trip. Yeah, and it’s kind of in the middle of nowhere. My, my sister worked down there- Yeah
[00:08:46] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: in one of the hospitals for, for quite a while, and it’s a, it’s an interesting area. It’s kinda out by itself. Yeah. It’s hot. It’s, uh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they used to have this training base in Miami. Oh, okay. And too many pilots were failing out because of extracurricular activities. Yeah. So they had to move it- I mean, Miami for pilots-
[00:09:07] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: to the middle of nowhere … would be the worst place on the planet, I would put that. Yeah, I, I think they learned their lesson pretty quickly. No, I’ll put you in Altus, Oklahoma. There’s nothing else around, and you’ll do better. Nothing. Nothing at all. Literally nothing. Like, every- I’m not joking. Yeah, I- it’s, it’s, uh
[00:09:24] Sam Brown: We found some wolf spiders in our bathroom the other day- Ooh, gee … which I didn’t know were a thing. Uh, I’ve learned to appreciate the wildlife in this part of the world. Uh, originally being from New England, it’s like, okay- Yeah … we get four seasons. Yep. And, you know, just nothing too crazy. Now I see spiders as big as my hand and, like, scorpions all, all over the place, so.
[00:09:46] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Oof. The, the New Englander in me is really, uh, chomping at the bit to get the hell out of here. I think my sister was saying there’s actually like an extermination schedule of like how you probably want things treated just to make sure they don’t get too crazy in some areas. Yeah. The, the, q- like, there’s crickets here that are the size of your damn arm.
[00:10:07] Sam Brown: Like, I, I- … I feel like I, I feel like I’ve been bad. Like, I feel like I’ve been done wrong in my life at some point- … to end up in Altus. But yeah, no, it’s been quite the, uh, quite the shock to the system. How did you end up there? ’Cause I know, uh, I followed your stuff obviously from Elite FTS and working with athletes- Yep
[00:10:22] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: for many years, and power lifting- Yep … and the whole nine yards. Yeah. So I was out in, uh, London, Ohio, the illustrious London, Ohio. As you can tell, I have, like, a really cool sense of- You like the hole in the wall, nope … places to live. Yeah. Yeah. I think that says more about me than anything else. Uh, I was out there and running events for Dave and, you know, doing the podcast with him, bunch of videos.
[00:10:46] Sam Brown: Um, and at one of the events, I, I ended up meeting my now wife. And- Oh, that’s cool … which was, which was cool. Um, she was actually making her way back to the East Coast to go to piano tuning school. So, like- Piano tuning school … she’s a piano technician. Huh. Yeah, so it’s like, i- I know. I had no idea that was even a thing.
[00:11:06] Sam Brown: Yeah. I thought you would just get another one. Uh- So she was out in Boston. I went back to Rhode Island. I got a strength coach job at the University of Rhode Island for the time I was there. I also decided that free time was stupid, so I opened up my own training facility, ’cause, you know- … I just have to do that.
[00:11:22] Sam Brown: Um, and then I ended up, uh, selling everything and going out to Nebraska to live with her for a short amount of time, and I found this position through one of my buddies who works now with, uh, JSOC down in Fort Bragg, so- Oh, okay … Joint Special Operations Command. Yeah. And he was like, “Hey, this is kind of a cool line of work that lines up with what you do.”
[00:11:43] Sam Brown: And I was like, “Okay.” So I threw my hat in the ring for that, and here I am, almost three years later. Wow. And is your wife there tuning pianos- Yeah … in the area, too? Yeah, yeah. It… You- Surprisingly, uh, there’s a lot of pianos in- Huh … in the middle of nowhere. That’s cool. I did not know that. I guess, uh, hobbies are few and far between.
[00:12:06] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Yeah, they’re not just trying to kill spiders during the day. You know, we’ll get a piano. Yeah, you’re right. We’ll play some piano. You’re, you’re right. You’re right. Um- But yeah, it’s, it’s been quite the trip. Um, uh, obviously working with athletic populations in the past, transitioning over to the military side, I had my thoughts on what it would be like.
[00:12:24] Sam Brown: I think- Mm … everybody on the outside- … is very much like, “Oh, they’re in the military. They must be in great shape. They must be really super health conscious.” They must wanna train all the time, bro. They must wanna train all the time. And I quickly found out that that is not the case. Like, none of the above.
[00:12:39] Sam Brown: None of the above is true. Um, again, every branch is different, but the Air Force, uh, especially the flyers- It’s really like a desk chair in the sky. Granted, it’s way cooler. Yeah. I love my guys to death, but i- it’s, they’re constantly in a seated position for long hours, not eating the best, not sleeping the best, and it, it’s really shaken me up in terms of what I thought this would be.
[00:13:06] Sam Brown: Um, but I also noticed that, you know, obviously fighter populations and, like, Special Forces, they get all the bells and whistles. My guys, we just get a little bit of space, couple kettle bells here and there. It’s, like, really back to basics, and it’s been really, really cool to see the progress and to see, you know, the, the really big changes we can make on a day-to-day basis.
[00:13:29] Speaker 3: But man, if we had a little extra stuff here and there, we’d be killing it. Yeah. I rem- I was teaching here locally for a while, and it was one of the few places that had, uh- a two-year fitness program. And so it was actually- Mm-hmm … a two-year program. You could be a fitness trainer. And so I was teaching there in person that I remember we had a pretty nice gym there.
[00:13:51] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: It wasn’t amazing, but it was pretty damn good. Yeah. And one of the students saying, they’re like, “Oh, well, this gym is crap. If we had this or that piece of equipment or whatever.” And I was like, “One, we have pretty nice equipment. Two, I should be able to lock you in a freaking elevator, and you should be able- Mm-hmm
[00:14:08] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: to get a good training session in with most people.” Like, your- Absolutely … my whole thing was like, yes, having great stuff is amazing. I have some cool stuff in my garage. I freaking love it. I have a rack from, you know, EliteFTS and tons of stuff from them, and Rogue and everything else. But at the same point, your philosophy should not be based on only the equipment you have.
[00:14:28] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: By all means, use it. Absolutely. It’s great. But if- Yep … if you can’t train anyone because your magic kettlebell or your specialty bar didn’t arrive- … like, you just need to get better, bro. Yeah. No, I agree. And it’s funny ’cause I went from training at EliteFTS every week, just about four or five days a week, with every specialty bar known to man.
[00:14:48] Sam Brown: Oh, yeah, there are tons of bars there. And I still found, and I still found that everybody just gravitated toward the same stuff every week. Really? Interesting. There were machines we didn’t even touch. And it, it was so funny. Like, it, it didn’t matter who it was because there was a lot of former Westside Lifters there, and it was just, like, the same stuff every, every single time we were going in.
[00:15:12] Speaker 3: And I was like, “Huh, there’s probably something to this that just ’cause you have all the bells and whistles doesn’t mean that you’re gonna use all the bells and whistles.” And we found the same sort of situation with our guys, too, is I mean, we have a couple racks. We got some kettlebells, dumbbells, and a couple of cable, uh, machines as well, and we got our treadmills.
[00:15:30] Sam Brown: We got our, uh, bikes. We ha- we have everything we need, and it’s so funny. One of the biggest things that we run into is the pilots that live on Instagram. Uh-oh. They wanna try- … like, the latest and greatest thing. I- we’ve, we’ve done a really good job in the human performance team to let them know, like, hey, in order to get good at something, you need to do it for longer than, I don’t know, the five minutes that you wanna concentrate on it.
[00:15:58] Sam Brown: So it’s, it’s been cool to kinda break that cycle because they didn’t have a human performance team before we got there, and- Oh … they w- they were, like, so excited about it, and it’s awesome, but we had to tell them, like, “Hey, a lot of training is actually kinda boring.” Mm-hmm. Like, especially the stuff that you guys need is it’s, it’s not gonna look flashy, but honestly, at the end of the day, it’s, it’s what you need.
[00:16:21] Sam Brown: It’s what it, what’s gonna help you feel better. And honestly, the biggest issue that we have is that these pilots never turn off, right? Oof. Talking about their nervous system, it’s always, it’s always go, go, go, go, go. So we’re at a training base, so all the, uh, pilots and air crew that are learning these particular three planes that we have, every single one of them will go through Altus.
[00:16:43] Sam Brown: So we see about 2,000- Mm … or so students a year. Wow. But then we also have the permanent party and the instructors that are there for years at a time. So it’s, it’s fascinating to see the transition from like what’s the latest and greatest on Instagram, how can we do this, to now them seeing like, “Hey, I only have 30 minutes today, then I have a six or eight-hour flight I have to do for a training mission.
[00:17:06] Sam Brown: What can we do?” So it, we, it’s been a really fun challenge for me, because being in the collegiate side, it’s like, yeah, you see athletes three times a week, four times a week, whatever it may be. We could see these guys once a week, we could see them five times a week, and it really depends. So i- there’s constantly a variation that needs to be in there to be like, we need to be able to assess them in that moment.
[00:17:30] Sam Brown: Be like, “What do you need? What can we help you with here?” Um, and a lot of the times it’s like, “Hey, man, maybe you just sit in the recovery chair and you chill out and just breathe for a little bit, because- … you, you’re, you’re running on no sleep and you, you just need to decompress here.” So it’s definitely been a, a, an eye-opening experience to, to work with this population, for sure.
[00:17:51] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: What are some of the Instagram trends that you despise the most right now? Oh, boy. Um- I try to not look at training stuff on Instagram because I- You’re right … I just can’t- I, I, since leaving Elite, yeah … I can’t- Since leaving Elite, I’m like- … take it … I can’t do it. I can’t do it. Um, Keto was the on- the be all, end all for everybody at- Yeah, okay
[00:18:11] Sam Brown: during a certain amount of time That’s still a thing, all right. It’s, I guess, still a thing. Um, then it was… There’s this weird thing that happens. People don’t wanna be strong anymore. They just wanna run forever. It’s kinda weird, isn’t it? It’s so weird. I’m like, “Guys, what the hell?” Yeah. Like, nobody wants to…
[00:18:29] Sam Brown: I was like, “Nobody wants to do arms with me?” Like, okay, I guess I’ll just do arms by myself. Yeah, that’s even more weird, especially for dudes. Yeah. I know. I know. It, it’s, they transition from, I think there was a lot of CrossFit going on, and then they’re transitioning into, like, marathons and, like, half-marathon.
[00:18:47] Sam Brown: And, and it, because I think it’s a type of activity they can do anywhere. Yeah, that makes sense. You know? Um- Yeah, yeah … we have a couple meatheads that really clang and bang that I just- That’s good … have my, just have my heart. Um, but they, we see a lot of, uh, the instructors just getting into long distance biking and running and just- Hmm
[00:19:09] Sam Brown: endurance sports in general, which I wouldn’t expect. I would’ve thought- Yeah … you know, I wanna fill out this flight suit. I wanna make it a little bit tighter on the arms. I wanna, you know, look, look, look like a, you know, stack of meat here. But yeah, it’s fascinating to see the trends that are kinda happening within, like, the, these particular pilot and air crew sorta scenarios.
[00:19:29] Sam Brown: Um, but yeah, it’s, it’s funny. They just changed the PT standards to now instead of running a mile and a half, they have to run two miles, and you would’ve thought it was the end of the world- … when they still run for fun. So I, I, like, I don’t know. It’s like a hard- That’s weird … it’s like a hard demographic to work with.
[00:19:44] Sam Brown: You’d think that’d be easy one then, if you’re the endurance dude. You would think. Yeah, you would think. Um, but it, it’s funny. It’s, I thought that they would be these, like, really crazy hard chargers, and there are some for sure, but I’m like, “Oh, you’re just like anybody else. You just fly a really cool plane.”
[00:19:59] Sam Brown: Like, that’s, that’s about it. You also make poor choices just like the majority of people anyway. Yeah. Do you think the- Endurance stuff is maybe for more the cognitive benefit of- It’s, yeah, it’s- I would think you’d want contrast, though. To me, like, that’s how my brain works. Like, you’re sitting in a thing, you’re very limited environment, but y- you can’t just, like, zone out, right?
[00:20:26] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: You gotta, like, know- Right … what you’re doing. Yeah. So you would think that going away from that, I would wanna do something like a heavy lift where I have to be on, but only for a few seconds. I don’t have to have this- Yeah … moderate level for hours on end. Yeah, it’s weird. They, a, I- there are some where I call it getting their zoomies out-
[00:20:44] Sam Brown: where they have to get in and, like, lift something heavy or do something challenging for the sake of challenge. Sure. Um, but what I like to say is, like, we kinda put the, it’s like bumpers on a bowling alley. Yep. It’s like, just control it enough so if they feel like they’re doing something really hard and super taxing, but it’s not really causing damage.
[00:21:03] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Yep. Um, because left to th- their own devices, they are doing stupid stuff. Just, it, it almost makes me feel like I’m- Just like everybody else. Yeah, like, it almost makes me feel like what it was like to coach high school athletes. It’s like, you know they’re just gonna be bench pressing in someone’s basement.
[00:21:18] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Yep. Doing arms. So, yeah, exactly. So it’s, it’s been kinda cool to see, but you, you bring up a good point about the cognitive. What we’re seeing is that a lot of people are going into the, our training space to just turn their brain off. Yeah, yeah. So i- they’ve trusted us and our staff with the programming, with, you know, the modifications and all of that, so they can just kinda go in and just physically exert themselves in a way that’s beneficial.
[00:21:46] Sam Brown: Because their day-to-day, in terms of cognitive load, is so incredibly high Um, because with each aircraft there’s different levels. You have the co-pilot qualification, then you have the aircraft commander, which is the left seat, but then you have an instructor. So in any single training flight, there’s like three or four different levels of teaching and education- Mm-hmm
[00:22:08] Sam Brown: going on. And i- it’s, I… We have gotten to fly many times with them. Oh, cool. And I’m just floored with the level of communication that’s required to be able to articulate what you’re gonna do, what the outcome is gonna be, and if it was successful, as well as how quickly things can just go off the rails.
[00:22:31] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Mm. And it’s, it’s… I’ve never been in a scary situation. It was scary for me, ’cause I didn’t know what the hell was going on. But for them, it was just like, “Okay, it’s this checklist. We have to do this. We have to do this procedure.” And it’s so quick with that decision-making, that when they get out of that jet, they’re like, “I don’t wanna think.”
[00:22:50] Sam Brown: Yeah. “I don’t wanna make a decision.” But that’s where it comes into the poor personal choices. Yeah. Because they’re like, “Oh, cool. Now I’m just gonna drink bourbon until my eyes close.” “Like, that’s all I’m gonna do.” Um, so it, it’s interesting. We make the joke that the Air Force runs on, uh, the trifecta of nicotine, caffeine, and alcohol- Yeah.
[00:23:11] Sam Brown: at various levels. So we try to just let them know, like, “Hey, man, like, maybe eat a vegetable occasionally.” Yeah. “Like, accidentally eat a vegetable.” “Drink some water that’s not in beer.” So it, it’s, it’s not these big, swooping changes. It’s these small, little adjustments that we try to make. And it’s, at the end of the day it’s about building buy-in.
[00:23:32] Sam Brown: They need to know that we care, that we are interested in learning what they do and how it looks and what, how it feels. Um, one of the planes that we have is a, is a KC-135, and it is from the ’40s. Like, it- Wow … looks like it’s from the- Those things are massive. Yes. Yes, yes, they are. Massive. They carry other planes.
[00:23:50] Sam Brown: And… Yeah, so the, we have the two refuelers, which are huge, the KC-46 and the KC-135, and then we have the C-17, which is a cargo plane. Yeah. Which- That’s what I was thinking of, yeah … yeah, it’s, it’s unbelievable how big this thing is. You see it take off, and you’re like, “That doesn’t make any sense.” “That defies gravity.”
[00:24:09] Sam Brown: Um, but it’s, it’s just fascinating to see, like, their personalities almost adapt to their airframe. Like the KC-135, y- you can see a 25-year-old pilot that thinks of himself as like a 65-year-old grizzled old man- … because he’s, it’s like, “Oh, my plane is harder, and we had to walk uphill barefoot both ways- Yeah, yeah
[00:24:30] Sam Brown: to the plane.” Like, it’s just funny to see the dynamics on the personalities that develop. Yeah, ’cause I think a lot of those are so… That was a argument I’ve heard from some, uh, A-10 pilots versus, like, the newer pilots Mm-hmm And one of the arguments was that it was almost like a, a thing, like they were saying it’s a higher skill because it’s not computerized.
[00:24:53] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: There’s still actual cables- Yeah … and stuff that are- Yep … are pulling it. Um, which was an advantage back in the day, because you could get kind of all shot to hell, and as long as your cables and stuff were working, like, you could still kinda make it back okay. So, like- Yeah … they showed some photos of, like, some of the damage they had taken and still made it back.
[00:25:12] Sam Brown: Bonkers. It’s A-10s defy everything that you would think. Like, how… That’s not possible. They’re like, “Okay, we have this gun. How do we make it fly?” Yeah, that’s literally what it was. Yeah, and- Um, but it was interesting just my handful of conversations of- Each one kind of had like, they’re very pro what their plane was, but they had this sort of, like you said, kind of personality of, of what it was.
[00:25:34] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Almost like people and their dogs sort of was what I, what I - Yes … kind of thought of. Yeah. It’s like how married couples start to look like each other. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it’s, it’s funny because, you know, if you’re a fighter pilot, you’re gonna have, like we talked about, kind of the more of the bells and whistles.
[00:25:51] Sam Brown: You’ll have- Yep … massage therapists on staff. You’ll have the latest and greatest technology. These, like, my crews fly more than any fighter pilot. They fly, you know, through the night. They’ll fly for 18 hours straight, and they’re just not as supported. Yeah. So like, I, I have found that I have gravitated towards these people because it’s like they are kind of left to their own devices.
[00:26:16] Sam Brown: And in terms of the, the cognitive stress and the physical stress of just doing their job, being able to be up in the plane and even just experience one flight, like I, I don’t, I can’t even describe to you. Like, I’m a multi-ply powerlifter, and I’m coming off of that plane like, “Who hit me with a shovel?”
[00:26:34] Sam Brown: Like, this is… Like, I’m used to neurological fatigue, but like- … this is something else. And like, just the, the physiology of what happens to your body during flight is so fascinating that it’s like, how does anybody learn in that environment? It absolutely blows my mind. And correct me if I’m wrong, I think what I’ve heard on those older planes is that there’s a shit ton of, of vibration and noise, and it’s not like, “Oh, it’s super quiet.
[00:27:02] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: We’re flying through the skies.” Like, it’s a, what I’ve heard- No … I’ve never been on one, is that it’s, it’s quite the visceral experience. It really is. And the pressurization changes, like on newer planes. Mm. Like, it’s, it’s, it, you are far more comfortable on newer planes. Like, a commercial airliner, you’re, you’re gonna be a little fatigued just because it’s a long time.
[00:27:22] Sam Brown: You’re dealing with people. But you’re right on the vibrations. And, and that’s what we’ve been kind of seeing, is a lot of lower back issues- Mm … on the 135 because you’re just constantly being shaken- Yeah … in a seated position. And the biggest injuries that we see are lower backs, hips, and actually, like necks.
[00:27:42] Sam Brown: Oh, sure. Which is, which is interesting because they’re not, like, pulling Gs. They’re not, you know, wearing anything crazy on their head, but it’s just the sheer duration of time that they’re in that position, and their body just kind of morphs to it. Yeah. And it’s, it’s been a definite challenge to get them to…
[00:28:02] Sam Brown: You know, it, there- there’s this, like, split between the newer age pilots and, like, the old heads. Yeah. And it’s like they, like the older crowd- wants it to be hard because that’s what they kinda pin their personality on. Sure. And the newer pilots are like, “Hey, why does this have to be so hard? Can’t we change the seats in this thing or, like, anything at all?”
[00:28:25] Sam Brown: Um, and, you know, when you’re dealing with a plane that was built in the ’40s- Yeah … um, and realistically designed to give every ounce of fuel that it has and then crash land somewhere, it’s, it’s a weird, it’s a weird dynamic when it comes to these pilots. And, and comfort is never really in their vocabulary.
[00:28:46] Sam Brown: It’s like, how can we out-tough guy everybody else and do the mission? And it’s, it, I… It’s impressive to see, but also it’s like, hey, you’re, you’re really burning the candle on both ends and in the middle. Yeah. You gotta be able to enjoy your life by the time you retire, ’cause you’re not always gonna be a pilot for the Air Force.
[00:29:05] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Yeah. It feels like whoever designed those planes did a really good job of designing them exactly for the task at hand. Mm-hmm. And then, I don’t know, we’ll just throw a seat in and have someone fly it. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s, it’s, it’s really impressive to see what these people, like, in the human body can just withstand for years and years.
[00:29:29] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: And do you find that stress sort of cements whatever position you’re in? Like, I noticed this with some powerlifters, like the stress is high, but it’s very short and acute. Mm-hmm. But you can end up with issues from that. And then I’ve noticed with even just desk workers who are very high stress, like, it’s a different thing where they’re not loading a ton of weight, like, actually.
[00:29:54] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Sure. But it just seems like the stress causes them to morph or cement into- Mm-hmm … whatever position they happen to be in. Yeah. No, it, 100%. That’s what we see is, is we’ll do these sessions where we try to stress them out with, you know, it- pushing the sled for- Mm-hmm … you know, X amount of distance, and then we’ll play radio calls for them, and you will see them, like, actively tighten up.
[00:30:21] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Oh, wow. And it’s like, “What is going on?” Like, this is, this is insane. Their body almost sees that position as the safe position- Mm … when that stress starts to kick in. Yeah, yeah. So what I’ve been doing a lot of is just reali- like helping these people realize, like, “Hey, we have to be able to take our body out of that state.”
[00:30:42] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Yeah. We have to. Um, I’m not gonna give you drills that you do while you’re flying, because when you’re flying, like, you’re doing your thing. Yeah, yeah. You have to do the mission. But the biggest thing that we’ve talked to instructors about specifically is on night rides when they come back at 3:00 in the morning, they can’t get to sleep, because- Oh, sure
[00:31:00] Sam Brown: the last 30 minutes to an hour that you’re flying with a brand-new pilot in this massive plane, that’s when the bad things can happen. Yeah. So they’ve ramped themselves up, and we have found that, that- Being able to down regulate the system is a challenge for them- Mm-hmm … because it’s, they’re not used to it, and they don’t trust it.
[00:31:20] Sam Brown: Yeah, yeah. Like, they’re tr- they, they perform so well in their fight or flight state, in their very sympathetic dominated state, and that’s what they live the majority of their life in. And, you know, the, getting quality blood work in the military is a whole different conversation- Yep … for another time.
[00:31:38] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Yeah, yeah. Um, because a lot of people don’t want that on their record, they don’t… Like, they, it’s, it’s a weird environment. You don’t wanna know because you might, something may come down and it’s like, “Oh, well now you’re air cr- not capable.” Well, it’s like we’re trying- Exactly … to help you, but it’s like if- Exactly
[00:31:53] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: if that’s never on my record, man, you can’t point to that and say anything bad’s gonna happen. Yeah. It’s, it’s funny, I was talking to a, an old grizzled senior master sergeant and he has been praising our services for, since he got there because he was like, “I wish this was around when I was in my 20s- Mm
[00:32:12] Sam Brown: because it, y- everybody gets through their career, and then there’s some sort of a scare- Mm … that puts perspective on where their health is.” He said it happened when he got to the instructor level and had a normal schedule where he realized he wasn’t sleeping. Mm. He actually got some blood work, and he was pre-diabetic, and it was just all these bad things just compounded on each other.
[00:32:35] Sam Brown: Um, not to mention that marriages don’t seem to last particularly long for some- It’s brutally hard on that … military people. Um, so it’s, it, it’s so funny. There’s like very basic things of just kind of down regulating the system. They’re like, “I’ve never felt this good,” or, “I, I’ve never felt this calm for… I haven’t d- done this for years.”
[00:32:57] Sam Brown: And just showing them that they have the power and the, and the tools to be able to do that when they’re not flying, because sleep is something that they just never get enough of. Mm. They can never get enough, so what we try to do is like let’s try to maximize the quality of the sleep that you do get as opposed to, you know, trying to work against the Air Force that- Yeah
[00:33:19] Sam Brown: has your schedule- Schedule, yeah. … for you. Um, and it’s, it’s, it’s been super, super helpful, and we’ve seen a lot of benefit from just people just relaxing and being very present because they’re always worrying about what’s next, they’re always worrying about what just happened, and they’re never like in the moment, and it’s just those quick bursts of time, even if it’s five minutes, 10 minutes here and there, they start to see that benefit of being able to step out of that pilot mode and to be able to actually recharge with the time that they have.
[00:33:51] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: What are some things you do to, to down regulate? I would say for my own training and some of the clients I work with, depending on where they’re at, like, getting people to down regulate immediately after a training session, I, I can’t really point to a lot of data on this, but it seems like- Mm-hmm
[00:34:09] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: strength gains and progress are better. And it- Mm-hmm … feels like the strength gains, like, it, it doesn’t really move the top end up, but it, I feel like it moves the floor up, meaning that- Yeah … the, myself and other people can consistently perform at a higher level. It may not show up as their absolute PR, but, like- Mm-hmm
[00:34:29] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: their frequency of doing higher level weights appears to be higher and moves faster. I don’t know what you’ve seen. Yeah. We’ve, we’ve seen kinda something similar with that, is we always try to get someone in our facility leaving the place feeling better than they did when they walked in. Yeah, that’s awesome.
[00:34:48] Sam Brown: So that can be some simple mobility work. That can be, uh, very just focused breathing exercises. Just really getting them to sit with themselves. Mm. You would be shocked- … at how many people are squirming after about 30 seconds of just sitting there- Oh, I bet they hate it … with their eyes closed and… They hate it.
[00:35:08] Sam Brown: Yeah. And I love it, because I am like- … “I’m in control here, man. You got nothing to say.” Yep. “You got nothing to do. You are right here right now.” Um, but as simple as, like, having them on their back in, like, a 90-90 position and just kinda slow breathing, um, a- and realizing that, you know… I, I’ve taken a lot of stuff from Cal with, like, RPR and whatnot, and it’s- Yeah, like the 43 set
[00:35:29] Sam Brown: it’s been pretty mind-blowing with, with, uh, the impact it can have in a very short amount of time. Um- It still boggles my mind. I’ve been doing it, God, eight years now. I’ve taught a bunch of times, and it, to this day, I did it on someone today. Like, the, it blows my mind that it, it frigging works. Yeah. I’m like, I can’t explain it.
[00:35:50] Sam Brown: I know. Like, don’t ask me to go deep on it, ’cause I’m like, I don’t know. It just does its thing. Yeah. Um, and I’ve been around Cal enough to know, like, guy knows his stuff. And it’s like- Yeah … cool, I, if it works for him, it’s gonna, it’s gonna work for me. Yeah. I can promise you that. Um, but honestly, it’s, a lot of the time it kinda goes back to what I was mentioning about, like, the bowling alley with the, with the bumpers on, is getting a good idea of, like, what their day looked like.
[00:36:14] Sam Brown: “Hey, did you just come off a flight?” Mm. “Hey, what was it? Was it, you know, an evaluation or was it just, like, a normal training flight?” Whatever that looks like. And understanding how we can- push the needle in the right direction without redlining them. Because a lot of them that come to us every day, they think that pushing yourself as hard as you can every time you’re in the gym is how you need to do it.
[00:36:38] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Mm. So we really try to hide the pill in the peanut butter for the dog- Yeah … when it comes to some of the things- That’s a good analogy … that we do. I’m gonna steal that one. Yeah. Because it’s, the, like, they are very, very smart. The people I work with are always trying to outthink us. They’re always trying to, like, get one over on us.
[00:36:58] Sam Brown: So it’s like, cool, what we’re gonna do, we’re gonna do, um, a yoke bar squat to a really, really high box, so, like, they can feel something, but, like, it’s really not doing the thing- Right … that they think it’s doing. And then it’s like, then what we’ll do during the time in between this, in between sets, I’m gonna have you lay in this 90-90 position, breathe.
[00:37:17] Sam Brown: I’ll time you. Two and a half minutes, all you gotta do. So they’re doing the thing And they’re still getting their zoomies out Mm-hmm … but they’re actually feeling better and, and kinda down-regulating as they go. Um, there, we have some of the, of the pilots that we work with who are super, super into, like, really high-intensity sprints and cardio and conditioning.
[00:37:40] Sam Brown: Mm-hmm. And I just bring out the old Louie Westside, as like, “Yeah, no, we- we’re just gonna push this sled. It’s so hard. It’s the worst thing you’ll ever do.” So in the moment, they feel taxed- Yep … but as you know, it’s, like, concentric only, so it’s, it’s more of a pumping that they’re feeling, and they’re like, “Wow, I feel so much better than I did, and I worked really hard.”
[00:37:58] Sam Brown: I’m like, “Cool. Enjoy-” Yeah … enjoy that.” Old school. When I trained a lot of people here, car pushes and reverse- Yep … sled drags. Mm-hmm. ’Cause it, it, on a car push, like, there’s only so far you can go ’cause we’ll run out of space, and you- Yep … there is an intrinsic thing where you know once you get it going, you don’t wanna go any slower.
[00:38:15] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: So it’s very easy- Mm-hmm … for people to give, like, close to 100%, but it’s very- Yep … controlled. Most of the time they’ll pick the right mechanics, it’s a good mechanical position, or- Mm-hmm … like you said, the, now, I got this from Louie, too, like, reverse sled drags, your quads feel like they’re on fire- Oh, yeah
[00:38:31] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: and you feel- Yep … horrible, but it- Yeah … doesn’t really wreck people that bad. No. No. It really doesn’t. And that’s, it’s kinda like a, a smoke and mirror effect- Yeah. … for them. They’re like, it, it, it’s like they don’t realize what’s actually happening, and I think that’s the best place to be. Yeah. Because as soon as they get into the weeds, they start trying to overthink everything.
[00:38:52] Sam Brown: We, they, they cannot be left to their own devices. I love ’em to death, but they- … they need to have control in their lives. And that’s also, I think you’re doing the service of removing the cognitive load for them, right? Mm-hmm. Because they have a ton of cognitive load already. It’s like, “Hey, guys, just- Right
[00:39:08] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: just trust me. I know what’s going on. Here’s what we’re gonna do. We’re gonna do this, this, and that. Just, just do the thing.” Like, oh, okay- Yep … they can just kinda just work on being present and, and doing the thing. Mm-hmm. And, uh, what’s funny is that during some of these workouts, I will, you know, go up to somebody and it looks like they’re really pumping hard.
[00:39:26] Sam Brown: I’m like, “Hey, man, when was the last time you took a b- big, deep breath?” They’re like, “Uh, uh, uh, I don’t know.” And I just constantly just g- I’m annoying the crap out of people- … constantly with, like, “Hey, just remember, you gotta, you know, the rest is a rest period. We need to actually be resting.” Um, they, they hate it, but it’s, it’s what they need.
[00:39:47] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Yeah. I mean, that’s what I’ve noticed with, with some even higher level athletes, like they’re… I had this joke with, um, a good buddy of mine who’s worked with, pretty well with NHL athletes, a lot of college athletes, he’s a good friend of Cal’s. Uh- Mm-hmm … and you probably know Jim Snyder. But- Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah
[00:40:02] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: yeah, he’s great. And so we’ve often joked that, like, the- And Cal’s seen this too, like, the people who enter the NHL, we call them like the, the sympathetic monsters who are just always on. Yeah. They do great- Yep … for like one to two years, and then they get injured or they disappear or whatever. And the people who have been there for, you know, five, eight, sometimes 10 years, every one of those guys I’ve worked on are the, the craziest people where when it’s go time, like, they are, they’re on, and when they’re off, they are completely off.
[00:40:33] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Like, one guy- Yep … we’re doing stuff on the table, and I mean, he freaking falls asleep. Like, “Hey, man, we’re gonna have you get up and do this eye drill.” He’s like, “All right, what do I do? What do I do?” Yeah. Just like, whoa. Just the amount they can transition on and off is, I think, just- Yeah … the key to the, the longevity of being able to still perform well at your sport, but not- Mm-hmm
[00:40:53] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: exert this extremely high cost in the end. Exactly. And, and kind of left to their own devices, they’re just doing, you know, uh, uh, I call it busy work. Mm. Like, it’s, you’re just getting ti- like, you’re not really training any one particular system. You’re just getting tired. You’re just, you’re just getting tired.
[00:41:12] Sam Brown: And I was like, “Hey, man, if you wanna get tired and injured, I can just hit you with this hammer. It’d be way quicker.” Like, we can just we don’t have to worry about it. Um, but I, I think they’re starting to realize if we are looking for a particular adaptation, there is a certain rest requirement involved with that as well.
[00:41:29] Sam Brown: It’s not just do more with less time. It’s, it’s you have to be smart about it, especially when they’re not sleeping that well, or they have, you know, a low back tweak and we have to kinda work around it. It’s, they’re starting to really buy in and realize, like, “Hey, I can get better with less work if it’s just way more focused.”
[00:41:48] Sam Brown: And that’s been, like, the big message we’re trying to do is like, hey, everybody in this particular squadron is inherently very, very smart, but also you guys are very, very stupid with the shit that you do in the gym. So, we need to come up with a middle ground where you can work hard, get the adaptation you’re looking for, and then get the heck out.
[00:42:10] Sam Brown: Like, I don’t wanna see you guys in here for 90 minutes, for two hours. Oof. No. Like, you gotta get in, get your stuff done, and go rest, recover, and eat something that’s halfway decent. And it’s as simple as that, and it’s, we’ve seen a lot of people really take hold of that and understand that, it, it, just ’cause you’re in there for two hours doesn’t mean you’re doing everything you think you’re doing.
[00:42:34] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Yeah. I was like, I’ve told this story on the podcast before, but when I was helping write the Triphasic 2 book with Cal, I’m sitting down in his office at the U of M, and he’s drawing all … You know, it’s Cal. He’s just like- It’s like a beautiful mind … Beautiful Mind drawing all this shit- Yeah. … on the whiteboard for like 40 minutes, and I’m sitting there taking notes.
[00:42:51] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: I’m the only one in the room. I’m sitting there, and I’m just like, “How the hell am I gonna explain any of this in a book, in a written format, to someone who’s not here?” And I kinda thought for a while, and I’m like, “Okay, so what you’re saying is do the highest quality work first, and then repeat that.” And he kinda looks at me funny, and he’s like, “Yeah, that’s right.”
[00:43:17] Sam Brown: Yeah. It’s, it’s so funny. Like, I’ll, I’ll have to pick- But it’s, it’s crazy how true that is- … pick your brain on- … across the board. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I’ll have to pick your brain on your Cal stories versus my Cal stories and see if they’re the same thing. Um- They’re probably the same. Uh, probably. He, uh … It, it
[00:43:30] Sam Brown: ’Cause I’ve done a couple seminars with Cal, and I’m always blown away because regardless of who’s talking, he’s taking notes in the back of the room. Oh, yeah. I’m like- Yeah, yeah. He’s paying attention … I’m like, “Cal.” I’m like, “Cal, what are you doing?” Yeah. He’s like, “Oh, no. You guys said something good. I just wanna
[00:43:44] Sam Brown: I’m gonna investigate it when I get back home.” I’m like, “Okay, man. I’m just going over how to teach somebody how to squat.” Like- Yeah … what do you want me to do? Any other good Cal stories? Oh. He, he … Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so at one of the seminars, he, he, uh … I’m a big Jameson and ginger ale guy. That’s like my go-to. Oh, okay.
[00:44:06] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Gotcha. Oh, you kind of froze here for just a sec. Uh-oh Hello? But, hey, can you hear me? Oh, we’re back. Okay, cool. Hey, there we go. Good. Give us an indication. Yeah, perfect. Um, yeah, so Cal and I and, and the rest of the coaches go out to a bar after the seminar just, you know, shooting the breeze like we normally do And all of a sudden, the waitress comes over, Cal talks to her, waitress leaves, comes back, and I have another drink.
[00:44:37] Sam Brown: And I was like, “Oh, cool, Cal. Like, I wasn’t done with this one, but that’s okay. Yeah.” Like, just anticipatory. I love it. I loves the, I love the forward thinking. So I finished my first one, finished my second one. I’m like, “Wow, this is hitting me a lot harder than I thought it was.” And I see Cal’s hit… His hair is getting all crazy.
[00:44:53] Sam Brown: Like, he’s just… He looks like he’s sweating through every layer of clothing he has. He’s… It’s awesome. It’s a beautiful thing. And we get through, like, two or three drinks, and I’m like, “Wow, I am, I am feeling…” I, I was like, “Am I dehydrated? What’s going on?” Little did I know Cal thought it would be a good idea to switch to doubles without telling me.
[00:45:12] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Yeah, I was gonna say. And I was like, “Cal, buddy.” He’s like, “Ah, I have a flight at f- 4:30 in the morning. I’ll be all right.” And I, I, I know he didn’t sleep. I know for a fact, because we got home at, like, 2:00 in the morning. And I was like, “How did you get your flight?” I texted him. He goes, “How you feeling?” I was like, “Not great, Cal.”
[00:45:31] Sam Brown: “Not great.” Oh, we went to the, um, oh, I’m blanking on the name. Was it CV? It was Central Virginia Performance. Um- Oh, yeah. Why am I blanking on the guy who runs it? Oh, I feel so bad now. But J Mail, Jada Mail. Um, went to that many years ago, and I think Cal was talking, Jim was talking. Let’s see, Lennon Evans was there, a bunch of people.
[00:45:54] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: And it was great. Like, phenomenal conference. He does a great job with it. Mm-hmm. And then it was in the summer, so you could stay in the dorms there if you wanted, because that was- Mm-hmm … just the easiest place. So we did that, and so we had a keg maybe potentially out in the open area. And then that got, uh, shut down, and we may have ended up in the men’s bathroom till, like, 3:00 in the morning, like, drawing shit on the, on the mirrors and stuff.
[00:46:20] Sam Brown: Yeah, that tracks. Uh, I think Snides was, like, taking me in the hallway doing, like, some weird PRI shit on me at, like, 2:00 in the morning. Oh, yeah. And yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I… Cal has dug his thumb into all sorts of spots on me. Ooh. It’s, I just… I’m like, “Cal, do your worst. Do your worst.” Yeah, we did the- There’s always seems to be drinks involved with it, though.
[00:46:42] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Yeah. The, the first time Doug Heel came over to do the, the activated training, which was the basis for RPR. Yeah. So I went to that. Cal convinced me to go. And I was doing my PhD at the time, and so Cal runs in the lab, ’cause my lab was, like, two-minute walk from where he was. We were both at Mary UG. Mm-hmm.
[00:46:59] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: He comes in, he’s like, “Hey, Matt, got this guy. He’s coming in from South Africa. Crazy shit, man. Crazy shit.” “You gotta come to this cert.” I’m like, “Cal, what, what are you talking about?” Like, he’s like, “He’s coming here in June. You, you gotta go.” I’m like, “Oh, shit.” At the time, I, like, had no money. I’m like, “How much is it?”
[00:47:16] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: He’s like, “Ah, it’s like $1,500.” And I’m like, if it was anyone else on the face of the planet, I’d be like, “No.” Yeah. “This is dumb. I don’t know anything about this. I don’t know anything that you’re selling.” But I’m like, “Okay.” Yep. “You tell me where to go, I’ll pay the money, I’ll find a way, I’ll put it on my card, I’ll be there.”
[00:47:31] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: So fast-forward to, like, May, we’re down presenting at Paloo FX in Austin, and we’re at the speaker dinner, and I, I go to Cal, I’m like, “Hey, man, what’s this guy from South Africa I’m paying all this money to, to come see?” And he’s like, “Oh, man. Stand up, stand up.” And so he stands up, and he, you know, takes his thumb and sticks it between my bottom of my rib and the top part of my hip.
[00:47:54] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Mm-hmm. Like, I call it the, the side noogie of death. Yeah. And I’m standing there just, like, screaming ’cause it hurts like hell. Yep. You know, Cal was, like, about 280 at the time with his arm around me giving me this, this side noogie. Everybody stops eating, puts their utensils down, and are just looking at me with Cal giving me this crazy hug, and I’m screaming, and they don’t know what the fuck’s going on.
[00:48:16] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: I sit down, and Cal’s like, “Crazy shit, man. Crazy shit.” And I’m like, “What, what are you even talking about?” Like, all I know is that this is incredibly painful now. Mm-hmm. And that was it. So we go to the day one thing, and I get a ride back with, with Jim Snyder, and we’re asking him, I was like, “I don’t know. It was pretty interesting.
[00:48:35] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: It was kinda cool.” And, um, so Snyder’s a licensed massage therapist and has done a ton of hands-on- Mm … work for years. And I asked him, I said, “Hey, what, what’d you think of, uh, Cal’s hands when he worked on you?” He’s like, “Oh my God, it was the worst ever.” It’s like a sledgehammer. Yeah. Uh, but it works. It, it’s crazy how- Yeah
[00:48:55] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: well it works. No, it’s, it’s phenomenal. I mean, it, it … just even, just the range of motion improvements that we’ve seen and, and just getting people to relax, it’s- Yeah, breathe. Like, the downregulation is crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that’s been one of the biggest things too is, is I have a, uh, an RPR poster up in, in my office, and everybody’s- Oh, nice
[00:49:16] Sam Brown: always, “What’s that?” And I was like- … “I’ll show you.” And they’re like, “Oh, no.” Oh, no. But yeah, Cal was, was working on me, it was a Friends University seminar out in Wichita, and he just … hands like a gorilla. Oh, yeah. He, he was- They’re horrible … uh, horrific. Yeah. Horrific. And I was like, “Cal, my body will do whatever it needs to to get the hell out of here.”
[00:49:39] Sam Brown: Yeah. This is, this is how this works. Um, yeah, no, it’s, it’s, it’s … I’ve been lucky enough to, you know, work with him for a while, and it’s, it’s, it’s always a blast because you’ll go a whole year or two years, like, working on your own projects and then, like, thinking you’re learning things, and all of a sudden you hear all the things he’s doing in the same amount of time, and you’re like, “How do you do this?”
[00:50:03] Speaker 2: Yeah. How do you manage your time? Do you have more hours in a day than most? Because it’s, it’s so fascinating. Yeah, that was the thing. Like, my advisor would yell at me ’cause during my lunch hour I’d, you know, go over there and sit in his office and just ask him questions. Mm-hmm. And 95% of the time he’d be like, “Oh yeah, we ran this experiment where we took the $50,000 force plates.
[00:50:25] Speaker 2: We stuck this guy in here and we did this, and this, and that.” And I’m like, “Holy shit.” Like, not only has he read the research on it, didn’t tell me I was batshit crazy, he’s already- Mm-hmm … thought of that and ran the experiment, and is telling me about the data he collected. I’m like, “This is insane.” I was like, “This is easy.
[00:50:39] Sam Brown: I like this.” Yeah, I’m like … And I got to learn it just by sitting there asking him a question. Yeah. I mean, there’s been so many phone calls where I’m like, “Hey, what about this particular situation?” Same thing. He’s like, “Oh, I’ve thought about that, but not from that perspective.” And he’s like, “All right, I’m gonna try this exper-…”
[00:50:56] Sam Brown: And then he, like, runs through what the experiment’s gonna look like. And I was just, like, floored at his, his level of depth and detail, and how … I’m like, “Man, your brain is just different.” What, like, I wish- It is different … we could study your brain for science. Like, he, he’s got a c- … I, and I always make this joke, and he knows I’ve made this joke for him, too.
[00:51:15] Sam Brown: He’s like, he’s the smartest link between apes and humans. Like, because he is an absolute orangutan of a human. Oh, yeah. It’s just his history of his strength and e- everything he did. And but he’s so smart. I’m like, how? I didn’t know the missing link was supposed to be smarter than me. This is crazy. Yeah.
[00:51:39] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: And just to see, like, the, so on, I won’t say the early forum I was on back in the day, but, uh, anyway, the, there was these arguments about is a plyo step faster than falling forward? So- Mm-hmm … back 20-plus years ago when forums had barely started, people had this argument. A good buddy of mine, I won’t say his name, but he gets on there and he’s like, “I think a plyo step is faster.”
[00:52:02] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: And they’re like, “No, you idiot. What are you- we always teach people to fall forward.” And he’s like, “Well, I don’t know. I, I can go time it.” So he, each day he put up an athlete. He timed it both the ways, same athlete. Mm-hmm. And he’s like, “Yeah, I timed 10 athletes, and all 10 of them the plyo step was faster.”
[00:52:20] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: And he just got roasted- Roasted … and people were so pissed. And I’m watching this going, “Well, well, hold on a sec. Like, all you people are training athletes too, like, can’t you…” And his whole thing was he’s like, “I don’t know if I’m right or wrong. I’d like just someone give me some data. Like, somebody please go test this and see am I doing something wrong or whatever.”
[00:52:40] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: And they actually banned him from the forum. They just kicked him out. Of course. And I was like, “This is crazy. Like, why would you not test stuff?” And it seems very obvious, but I’ve noticed that more coaches than not are afraid of finding out what they might find by testing. But like- Right … all the people who make the greatest progress, I mean, you know, Louie was, comes to mind too, of the stories of all the crazy shit he was testing.
[00:53:07] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: A lot of it didn’t work, were shit. Mm-hmm. But the stuff that worked, worked really well, you know? Yeah. And I think that’s just, those kind of people are a little bit half nuts that figure out a lot of really cool shit. Yeah. And, and it’s, it’s fascinating too because, I mean, with- All the, the latest and greatest in technology, and sensors, and wearables, and this and that Yes
[00:53:29] Sam Brown: it’s, I, I find myself using it as a tool because- Sure … the Air Force has a lot of wearables that they wear. But also, I, I think the, the personal experience of that individual plays such a big role- Oh, huge … in what will work. Yeah. You know? Uh, I, I learned this through Dr. McGill, is like you can have 10 people with back pain, and you’re gonna train them all completely differently based on what they do, their personality, like who they are as people, because all of that plays a role in what will get them better and what they can kinda latch onto.
[00:54:07] Sam Brown: And I’ve seen that a lot in the Air Force population of just individuals that are so locked into their wearables. Like, they’re like, they don’t even have a, their own self-perception of how they feel. Hmm. They’re waiting to be told how they feel. The VO2 is all of it. Based on a sleep score. Yeah, and I’m like, “Yeah, but like how do you actually feel?”
[00:54:29] Sam Brown: Yeah. They’re like, “Well, my watch says…” I was like, “Well, no, what do…” I was like, “What do you say?” So it’s, it’s a weird shift because I remember when they first started coming out, everybody’s like, “Ah, that’s bullshit. Whatever. Blah, blah, blah,” but now it’s gotten to the point where they just don’t even have their own litmus test of their own ability to recover or how their body feels.
[00:54:49] Sam Brown: Or if they feel springy, or if they feel strong or powerful, they’re just waiting to be told how they feel, which is wild to me. It’s, it’s weird. Like, I’ve had, I’ve actually gotten burned by this before, so I’ve had to qualify now of, “Okay, how did you feel in the morning?” And then I, now I have to qualify it of- I want to know how you felt before you checked any data whatsoever.
[00:55:14] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Yep. And a lot of times they’re like, “Oh, well my watch says this,” like you said, or it s- n- no, no, like… And sometimes it’s like, don’t even check it for 30 minutes. I wanna know how you felt- Right … as soon as you got up. I wanna know after you’re up for about a half hour, you know, had coffee, didn’t have coffee, whatever the thing is, because that gives me a pretty good idea of, of where you’re at.
[00:55:34] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: And- Yeah … I remember having this discussion with a good buddy, Dr. Tommy Wood, who does consulting for F1. I did some consulting for F1 too, and we both kind of agreed that, yeah, there’s a lot of really good data you can get from respiratory rate, HRV, body temp. Mm-hmm. Like, there’s a lot of stuff that’s really, really useful if you know how to use it.
[00:55:53] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Yep. But at the end of the day, y- a lot of times you default as a trainer to make changes in the moment of, “Hey, like, like how you feeling?” Like, literally, like honestly, like, “How are you feeling?” Yeah. Is still one of- Yep … the biggest feedback points that is extremely useful. Yeah. I mean, one of the big things that we’ve been starting to kinda utilize more is that resting heart rate.
[00:56:16] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Yes. Because i- i- we, we start to see that the more calm someone is in a flying scenario, huh, weird, they make better decisions. Yeah. For sure. So if we c- It’s so crazy. So it’s been our means of getting people to actually work on certain health markers with that resting heart rate, because then I can sell it, be like, “Hey, you’re, you have more capacity to think clearer- Yep
[00:56:45] Sam Brown: if that resting heart rate is lower.” And they’re like, “Oh, okay.” And then I do a, a coup- a little bit of RPR, some breathing work with them, and then we retest their resting heart rate- Nice … and it’s lower. And it’s like, “Hey, what’s stopping you from living at this level - Mm-hmm … when you’re not in a plane?”
[00:57:03] Sam Brown: Because if you’re starting down in the 40s, your capacity before the shit hits the fan is way higher- Yeah … than if you’re living in the 70s. Oh, huge difference. And that can either be, and that can either be, like, most of the time they’re like, “Oh yeah, no, I just crushed an energy drink before this,” and it’s like-
[00:57:18] Sam Brown: okay, well what the hell, man? Like, that’s- Yeah … not gonna help anybody. But it’s, it’s just getting them to realize the connection between their body, their sensation of how they are, and their performance, and just seeing those clear connectors. But honestly, resting heart rate’s been one of the best things for us because we’re like, “Hey, you’re, you’re just sitting here and it’s like 97.”
[00:57:41] Sam Brown: “What’s go- like, what’s going on?” And they’re like, “Oh, I’m really, I’m just thinking about this next flight,” and then we start talking about it, and we start identifying the, the things that they are worried about, and we see that heart rate start ticking down. And I’m like, “Oh, how do you feel now?” They’re like, “Oh, I feel a little bit better.”
[00:57:59] Sam Brown: I was like, “Cool. Let’s do this again.” Yeah. Like, let’s, let’s not forget this when you walk out of the room. Yeah, yeah. Speaking of cognitive load and stuff, have you played much with the, the goat drill for those athletes in terms of- Oh- … multitasking? That has been, that has been amazing. Uh- Yeah … uh, that is something that- And you can explain what it is too for, for listeners, ’cause this is mostly audio.
[00:58:22] Sam Brown: Yeah, so it’s essentially like a multi-sensory drill where you’re doing… We start it pretty simple with just an infinity walk. We don’t throw- Cool … we don’t throw in the third- Okay … because they, they just can’t handle it right off the bat. Yeah, yeah. And the idea is to have your eyes fixed on a target, and as you transition through this infinity loop, you have to continue making that eye contact, and you have to be able to move your body in a particular motion.
[00:58:46] Sam Brown: And it’s… What we’ve seen is we’ve used it as a primer, but also- Ah … we’ve used it as a means of decompressing the system. Oh, that’s cool. So- I like that … we will, we will use it if someone’s off on a flight for eight hours, and they just come in and they’re frazzled. I was like, “Cool, we’re gonna start with just this infinity walk, looking at this target, and I want you to just get lost in it.”
[00:59:08] Sam Brown: We’ll have them- Mm … start passing the ball around themselves- Yep … like Cal does. And what it does is it just gets the system just better connected, and they just feel so much better. We’ve tracked heart rate while they’re doing it, and it’s dropped, which is awesome. Like, that’s- Yeah … when our goal is to get them to down regulate, that’s one of the best ways we do it, because it gives them something to do that kinda almost connects the left and right sides of their brain and allows them to think clearer.
[00:59:38] Sam Brown: Um, we’ve also used it, I have a couple really, really high-level athletes that, uh, are just studs, and how I think of it is like how do you make a German shepherd tired? You get them to think. Like, they could run sprints- Yeah, yeah. … all day. And I took him through, so a three cone goat drill where I would say pause and they have to switch direction with his hands as well as with his body.
[01:00:03] Sam Brown: Oh, I like that. So re- That’s good … like super spicy. Super spicy. Yeah, yeah. We did that in between his, his normal workout, and he said he’s never felt so just drained in his life. That he’d fe- he just feels like he, you know, ran a marathon. But it was just, it wasn’t physical, it was just, uh, nervous system.
[01:00:26] Sam Brown: It was just his cognitive. Yeah. And he was like, “I loved this because I haven’t felt this in a very long time.” Oh, that’s cool. And it, it only took a couple weeks for him to get just really, really good at it. Yeah. But that, I still remember that first day. He was like, “What the fuck did you do to me?” Like, “The rest of my day I was sitting at my desk just like a slug.”
[01:00:48] Sam Brown: And I was like, “Hey, man, like we made you think. Like we made your body do things you’re not normally doing.” Um, but yeah, we’ve used it in a, like a higher intensity sense and, and kinda built it up over time. But a lot of the time we use it as that kind of a decompression to get their body moving a little bit, get their brain a little bit more fi- firing a little bit more readily, and it, we’ve seen amazing, amazing things from it.
[01:01:11] Sam Brown: And it’s, I, I’m so glad that Cal, it has been so he- helpful with kinda coming up with different sorta strategies and, and things for that. But honestly, that’s been one of the greatest tools that we’ve had. No, that’s cool, ’cause I remember the first time, I think I might even been at the U of M when I was still doing my research.
[01:01:29] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Uh, he comes over, he’s like, “Hey, man. Man, I gotta show you this.” And he shows me, like I think it was like the high-end one where there’s like people chasing him, and they’re jumping over- Oh, yeah … things on the floor. Over hurdles and shit, yeah. And three cone… I looked at it and I went W- w- what the fuck are you doing?
[01:01:46] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: He’s like, “Man, it’s the greatest drill I’ve ever done. It’s the best thing ever. Like, increases their ceiling. It’s like j- just crazy stuff.” And I’m like, “Like, send me the video.” And so at first I was like, “Okay, he’s, he’s gone complete nuthouse now. Like, he’s, he’s- Yeah, we lost him. We lost him … we’ve lost him entirely.
[01:02:00] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: He’s detached from reality. Mm-hmm. And then I started thinking about it and playing with, you know, regressions and stuff, and it took me a while, but I was like, “Oh, holy shit. Like, what are you doing? You’re, you’re coordinating visual input, vestibular input, proprioception- Mm-hmm … input of the neck, high, low, visual targets, acuity, dual tasking, cognition, like, all at the same time.”
[01:02:24] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Mm-hmm. And I’m like, “Let me guess. Your people who have been, air quote, cleared for concussion come back and are horrible at this drill.” He’s like, “Oh, yeah, it destroys them.” I’m like, “Right, ’cause you’re, you’re, you’re technically medically cleared, but you’re probably not back to the level- Yeah … you, you need to be.”
[01:02:40] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Yeah. And so now with, I mean, literally with all my online clients, like, I have all of them doing it in some form, um- Mm-hmm … more days than not. Um, and it’s wild. Yeah, it’s, it is wild. And, and like with the, uh, the pilots coming off of a flight and, you know, having that, their system essentially rocked while flying because granted they’re not going upside down or pulling G’s under anything.
[01:03:06] Sam Brown: Right. But just being shaken constantly, it almost just kinda muddies their brain in terms of their ability to think clearly and, and make really good decisions. The biggest c- comment that we hear is that it just feels like it clears out the, the, the cobwebs. Mm. It lets us kinda focus in, and it allows you to be super present in the moment.
[01:03:28] Sam Brown: And honestly, the, the best thing that’s come from us is that these pilots are getting competitive.
[01:03:37] Sam Brown: So it, it’s- … they start seeing someone do it that’s, like, a high achiever, they’re like, “What’s that thing?” Yeah. “What’s that thing you were doing?” I’m like, “Oh, come on over here, I’ll show you.” Yeah. And it just, it just breeds more of that, you know, competitive nature, and they, they never wanna be the one that isn’t doing the latest and greatest with, you know, the coaches that we have, you know?
[01:03:55] Sam Brown: They d- they always wanna be the one, like, “Oh, yeah, no, I’m doing this. It’s really hard. It’s re- you’re not gonna be able to do it.” And all of a sudden they talk shit, and now everybody’s doing it. And it’s just fun, and it’s a great way for them to have fun. Yeah. Um, we’ve, we’ve done it with, like, throwing tennis balls at them that they have to catch that are different- Yep
[01:04:13] Sam Brown: colors. Like, just any variation that we’re able to do that gets them moving in that way and, and switching targets with their eyes. Because their job is, is very visual in nature, obviously. Mm. They have their cross-check, they need to be able to kinda scan. Dual tasking is essentially what they do. Uh, they’re constantly listening for things, so there’s that auditory element.
[01:04:36] Sam Brown: And giving them a task that helps them downregulate when we wanna downregulate, but upregulate when we wanna get that kind of firing, has been amazing. It’s been amazing to see. We have people just be like, “Hey, I just feel better when I do this.” Yeah. It’s like, cool. Like, I don’t… Not everything has to be, like, super specific.
[01:04:56] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: It’s like, if you feel good after you do this, let’s just keep doing it. And that was definitely something I got from Cal. He’s like, “Hey, if it works, keep doing it.” Yeah, yeah. It’s like, oh, shit. Oh. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I’ve lost track of how many times now I’ve gone to the gym and there’s just those days…
[01:05:14] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: And I don’t know if it’s a, like, a central fatigue or a neurologic fatigue- Mm-hmm … where you just feel kinda- Physically a little slow, but mentally just, like, blah. Yeah. And I’ve done, like, two or three rounds of the GOAT drill, not even the best performance on it at all. Like, from a performance standpoint, it’s probably one of the worst things I’ve done.
[01:05:33] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: But after that, you get into your warmup, you’re like, “Damn, I, I actually feel pretty good now.” And it- Yeah … it’s crazy how it seems to reset that. I think the, the coordination of all the systems and everything. Yeah. No, and that’s definitely what we’ve seen. We’ve seen some, you know, like I said, we have some real hard chargers, but w- then we also have some real couch potatoes that I get them just walking through it- Sure
[01:05:58] Sam Brown: and all of a sudden they start getting a little faster and a little fast- Yep … and they start pushing themselves. Like, I don’t coach that. Mm-hmm. I’m like, “Hey, we’re gonna do this a couple times,” and then, like, the first time they’re kinda sluggish and slow. But like you said, it just, like, kinda flips a switch, and they’re like, “Oh, o- okay, I guess I don’t feel as bad as I thought I did,” or, “I guess this is, can be a good training day.”
[01:06:18] Sam Brown: And it’s just really cool to see. Um, and that’s, that’s one of the big things that we’ve, we’ve implemented and, and the pilots seem to definitely enjoy that. That’s cool. You had mentioned the recovery chair. Does that happen to be a Shiftwave chair by chance, or is there something special about it? No, no, it’s…
[01:06:35] Sam Brown: No, it’s, it’s literally just, like, a very simple compression and, and heat. It’s nothing, it’s- Ah, gotcha. I wish we had all the funds in the world. All the fancy tools, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But, but honestly, it’s, it’s, uh… We- we’ve lucked out with some of the space that we do have. So they’re in their own rooms where the, the air crew can just close the door.
[01:06:57] Sam Brown: Oh, nice. We have some, like, white noise machines. We have, you know, it, all sorts of, you know, things to help kinda calm them. And there’s been many a time I’ve had to go in there and poke people with sticks to get them to wake up- … because it’s, it, once they realize that they can, they have the ability to downshift- Mm-hmm
[01:07:13] Sam Brown: they have the ability to calm their, their nervous system down and just calm their bodies down, they start to crave it. Yeah. And so they’ll, they will come back over and over. It’s not a s- it, there’s nothing special about the massage chair. There’s nothing special about the room. But they start to see it as their space to, like, just make the outside world disappear for an hour and- Yeah.
[01:07:34] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: And they have that association, “Here’s where I down-regulate.” Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So we’ve, we’ve done a lot of, uh, of work with people in there and, and to get them to be like, “Hey- You cannot leave- … until you are, your heart rate is down, right? Like, we, we can actually hook them up and we can, we can see some of the, the numbers coming in, and m- nine times out of 10 they will literally fall asleep.
[01:07:57] Sam Brown: Yeah. And I’m like, “Do you normally fall asleep that easily at home at night in your own bed?” They’re like, “No.” No. Then why? Why? Yeah. What’s going on? And then it just evolves into a better and better conversation. So that’s been the biggest thing that I’ve seen from this population is, like, once you get buy-in, they’re there.
[01:08:16] Sam Brown: Like, they will run through walls for you. They will do whatever they need to. And one of the coolest, uh, parts about the Air Force is, like, they have a currency of patches. Hmm. So, like, when I first started there was… I had no patches on my wall. But now I get to see all the patches of the people that I’ve worked with, and it’s a, it’s really, really cool to see because they appreciate it.
[01:08:38] Sam Brown: Yeah. Because they’ve never really been given this level of service that is directed at them specifically. It is for them. It’s… And it, some of them, like, don’t believe it. They’re like, “What do you mean? Like, we can work with coaches and-” “… you know, feel, and, like, feel better and move better and perform better?”
[01:08:56] Sam Brown: I was like, “Yeah, no, that’s, that’s it. That’s, there’s no strings attached.” Like, this is just what we do. Yeah. And I know the military is its own thing and its own entity and stuff, too, but to me, if I was running it and had, you know, wave my magic wand, to me, I would just make it a requirement for everyone.
[01:09:15] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Because the cost- I know … that you’re gonna pay for your salary and your staff, it’s, in the big picture for what the military spends on stuff, it is so small. Oh, yeah. And the amount of return to have someone like yourself there, who knows what’s going on, who knows how to do it, the return that you get, and especially once they’re even out, to lower that cost- Mm-hmm
[01:09:34] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: and have them perform at a higher level, to me it’s just like a, it’s an absolute no-brainer. Yeah. And the amount of money that the military will spend on one single-use missile- Yeah. Is, is unbelievable. Um, but yeah, i- it’s, it’s been cool because we’re lucky enough to have been, uh, based on the performance and based on the outcomes that we’ve been getting is, is actually get worked into the syllabi for each individual air crew position.
[01:10:02] Sam Brown: Oh, that’s great. So, so, like- Their five or six flights that they go on is, like, then they have to learn about night vision, then they have to worry about, you know, like, airdrop and low levels and all this stuff. And, like, our touch points are at the same level as those now. Nice. So it- That’s amazing … it’s, it’s been really cool to see.
[01:10:20] Sam Brown: We’ve been building curriculum for it, which is awesome. Um, but at the end of the day, it’s like, just to be in a position where it’s like, “Hey, this is being seen as just as important as flying the plane.” Yeah. It’s a big, big shift from when I first started to today. Um- That was a huge shift … it’s, and it’s, and it’s only been, you know, like I said, about two and a half years or so, but it’s, it’s from people Getting results and feeling good, and being like, “Hey, you guys should try this.”
[01:10:49] Sam Brown: Yeah. Like, very grassroots. We went from, I think, 4,000 total touch points in a year to my s- my first year we saw about 8,500. So we’ve… It’s been a big, big bump, and that’s only gone up, and it’s, and it’s been really, really cool to see that it’s being used by everybody, but also, like, the leadership. The leadership, we have, like, a leadership hour where the squadron commanders all come in, talk shit at 6:00 o’clock in the morning.
[01:11:16] Sam Brown: Oh, nice. They all train. They all… You know what I mean? That’s great. So, it’s, it’s, it’s a really cool, uh, means of, like, just building that comradery among the squadrons. But it’s, it’s honestly… I have been so fortunate with the people I work with. We all just give a shit. And I’m sure you see people that get- Yeah
[01:11:32] Sam Brown: into positions and they just stop giving a shit. Yeah. And, like, we’ve just never stopped, because we know how important their mission is. We know how important it is that they come back and be able to see their families, and live a life that not only helps serve the country when they’re in, but, like, we want them to have a good quality life on the other side.
[01:11:51] Sam Brown: And if we can kinda push that needle in the right direction where they figure it out a little sooner, man, like you said, the cost on the military, the cost on the medical system, like, it all starts to go down if they’re feeling better, moving better, and are a little bit more, you know, resilient in nature.
[01:12:09] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Yeah. And I think that’s a good point of just for even newer coaches, it’s you may not have even the world’s best skill set, but if you care a lot about athletes and you’re- Mm-hmm … willing to get better, like, it’s hard to explain how much that actually buys you versus someone who might be super intelligent, who’s just like, “Ah, I’m just paid to be here.”
[01:12:31] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: You know? Yeah. There’s a huge difference. Yeah. And, and especially, you know, uh, on the military side, there’s a lot of people, I won’t drop any names as much as I want to- … uh, that will just go in, turn the lights on, and just wait for people to show up. Yeah. And it’s like, that’s not how relationships are made.
[01:12:49] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: No. Like, I’ve put myself on some of the most aggressive flights, and I have puked my fucking guts out- … just to win brownie points with these guys, and to just show them, like, “Hey, man- Yeah … I’m ready to game. Let’s do it.” Yeah, let’s go. Uh, they, they, like I said, they bought me breakfast, uh, because they knew I’d be puking.
[01:13:08] Sam Brown: And then I ended up, uh, I ended up, uh, going on that same flight the next week, and then I overdosed on Dramamine, and I don’t remember half of it. Uh Oh. But from that day, I got two of the most high-achieving pilots to come in, and they’ve brought more people in than anybody else. They’re like, “No, this guy’s…
[01:13:27] Sam Brown: He’s, he’s suffered through it with the rest of us.” And it’s been a really cool environment. Correct me if I’m wrong, last question as we wrap up. KC-135, is that the one where they do the parabolas where you can be weightless for a while? Is that correct? Yes, that’s the old vomit comet. The vomit comet is what- Yeah, that’s the-
[01:13:42] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: my friends in the military used to call it. Yeah, that’s, uh, that’s the plane they use for that. Uh, but I’ll tell you right now, all the other ones can make you puke pretty good too. Oh, I’m sure they could. I’ve, I’m one of the only people that have been able to puke on every single one of those planes. So I’ll put my hat on that.
[01:14:02] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: A buddy of mine told me that story. Years ago, he worked for NASA and did some stuff through the cosmonauts in Russia, was an aerospace- Mm-hmm … physiologist. I think he was in the military- Yeah … before that. And I asked him, I said, “Oh, why do they call it the vomit comet?” And he’s like, “Well, ’cause if they’re scheduled to do 10 or 20 parabolas and you throw up on the first one,” he’s like, “They’re not stopping for your ass.”
[01:14:22] Sam Brown: No, they’re not. No, they’re not. Good point. Yeah. It’s, it’s a … I give these guys credit, man. That’s not … I’m like, every time I get off that plane, I’m, like, just hugging the ground. I’m like, “Yes, terra firma. I’m back.” Oh. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your time. Um, anything you wanna promote or … I know you’re busy with all the military stuff, but anything else or where these people can find you?
[01:14:47] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: I, I know you’re- Yeah, I- … pretty busy with your day job. Yeah, for sure. But, I mean, if anybody wants to, you know, touch base, sambrownstrength on Instagram. That’s kinda where I, you know, have all my conversations. Not really promoting anything right now, just ’cause it’s … You know. It’s crazy that when a war kicks off how busy things get.
[01:15:04] Sam Brown: Uh- Oh, I’m sure … but it’s … Yeah. But honestly, if anybody wants to talk about anything that we kinda went over, I’m totally an open book. And any good Cal stories, please copy both of us on them. Yeah. Please. Oh, we could have a whole episode on Cal stories. Oh. The last one I’ll tell is, this was at the University of St.
[01:15:25] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Thomas presentation for the NSCA. So Cal gets up there and he’s like, he’s like, “Oh, y- y- can you guys hear me?” We’re like, “Yeah.” He’s like, “I, I got this new tooth and I don’t like it. Do you mind if I take it out?” So he pulls- Oh, that friggin’ tooth … his tooth out and sets it- That friggin’ tooth … on the podium.
[01:15:42] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: He’s like, “Oh, that’s a lot better.” And at the end, he, like- Ugh … sticks it back in. I’m like, He was playing with that damn thing every time I’ve seen him, just playing with that tooth. And it’s, and it’s … There’s something that happens when he starts getting ramped up during- Yep … a talk, and his hair gets all crazy.
[01:16:00] Sam Brown: Yeah, it starts getting crazy. And he doesn’t have his, and he doesn’t have his tooth in. And I’m like, I can’t believe people from across the world pay money to see this guy. His information is unbelievable, but, like, just from aesthetics, this is crazy. Yeah. I was trying to explain to someone who it was, ’cause I said, “You know, I’m writing the book with him.”
[01:16:18] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: He’s like, “I don’t know who.” And then I’m giving the explanation. He goes, “Oh, I see that guy that always looks like he just crawled out of a trailer park in the morning?” Yep, that’s the one. I’m like, “Yep, you would be correct.” Oh, boy. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for all your time. Uh, really appreciate it.
[01:16:37] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: This was great. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you.
[01:16:41] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Thank you so much for listening to the podcast. We really appreciate it. Huge thanks to Sam for coming on the podcast and sharing all the great techniques he’s doing with the, the Air Force and all the pilots there in Altus, Oklahoma. Really, really appreciate, uh, all the wonderful work that he’s doing there, and him being so willing to share everything, uh, with us, including some good stories about our buddy Cal Dietz.
[01:17:10] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: So if you wanna pick up the Triphasic 2 training book, go to triphasic2.com. It is out now. Uh, we talked a fair amount about some of the items here, such as the GOAT drill and other training methods that are covered in the book that I wrote myself with Coach Cal Dietz, and super happy with how it turned out.
[01:17:29] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Uh, we’ve gotten some great, uh, feedback on it. And a huge thanks to Sam for all of his praise, uh, for the book there. Really, really, uh, appreciate that. It was a long process. I think overall it took me nine years to get that thing out, so always nice to see people are using and applying it. Again, big thanks to Sam for all the work he’s doing.
[01:17:54] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: And if you want more information from me, go and check out my newsletter, miketnelson.com/newsletter. It’s the best place to go. Thank you so much for listening. If you have a few seconds, if you can hit the old, the download, the likes, the subscribe, all the little things that make the algorithm nice and happy, uh, to help us with distribution of the show.
[01:18:16] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: Uh, if you’re one of the minority people who watch on YouTube, I know probably 90, 95% of this is audio, if you could subscribe to it, we’re trying to get across 1,000 subscribers on YouTube. That would be amazing. If you have time to leave us a short review on iTunes or Spotify, that goes a long way also. So thank you so much for listening.
[01:18:37] Dr. Mike T. Nelson: We really appreciate it. Big thanks to Sam Brown. Make sure to check out all of his great stuff, and we’ll talk to all of you again next week