In this episode of the Flex Diet Podcast, I sit down with Dr. Ashley Dwyer, a PharmD-turned nutrition and fitness coach, to cover a wide range of topics, with a strong focus on PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome), a metabolic condition that affects fertility, cycles, and systemic health. We dig into practical lifestyle strategies for insulin-resistant PCOS, including balanced meals, protein and fiber, blood sugar management, movement, and stress reduction, plus why long-term keto often isn’t a great fit. We also discuss GLP-1 medications, including concerns about HRV and resting heart rate, and why foundations and coaching matter when someone uses them. Finally, we discuss the current “wild west” of peptides, the lack of human data, dosing and purity issues, and the importance of transparency, consistency, and identity-based behavior change for body composition and long-term health. Sponsors: Flex4: Dr Ashley Dwyer's top 4 things for women to improve body composition: Daily Fitness Insider Newsletter: https://flex-diet.kit.com/bfa1510fa8
In this episode of the Flex Diet Podcast, I sit down with Dr. Ashley Dwyer, a PharmD-turned nutrition and fitness coach, to cover a wide range of topics, with a strong focus on PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome), a metabolic condition that affects fertility, cycles, and systemic health.
We dig into practical lifestyle strategies for insulin-resistant PCOS, including balanced meals, protein and fiber, blood sugar management, movement, and stress reduction, plus why long-term keto often isn’t a great fit. We also discuss GLP-1 medications, including concerns about HRV and resting heart rate, and why foundations and coaching matter when someone uses them.
Finally, we discuss the current “wild west” of peptides, the lack of human data, dosing and purity issues, and the importance of transparency, consistency, and identity-based behavior change for body composition and long-term health.
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Speaker: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the Flex Diet Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Mike Nelson. On this podcast, we talk about all things to increase muscle, improve performance, better, your body composition, do all of it in a flexible framework without destroying your health. Today on the podcast we have Dr. Ashley Dwyer, and we're talking about a kind of a hodgepodge of all sorts of stuff.
Everything from women in A-P-C-O-S. She'll explain, uh, what that is. And it's relatively common, so you've probably heard of it or you have friends or clients that, uh, possibly have it. Uh, and then everything from the coaching business, some tips improve body composition and performance to. Peptides and drugs and what are some of the best models to use, and a little [00:01:00] bit on, uh, her journey and how she works, uh, with her clients.
So, Dr. Ashley is a pharm d so she's a pharmacist turned nutrition and fitness coach. She got her doctoral degree in pharmacy from the University of Florida and then transitioned to helping people through health, nutrition, and lifestyle. So today she combines her backgrounds in pharmacology, bodybuilding, functional health, and much more to create sustainable weight loss and increase metabolic health at the same time.
I first got to meet her at the Real Coaches Summit. I think going back, and we talked about this in the podcast here three or four years now, which is kind of wild. Shout out to my good buddy Rahm, who invited me to present at the first year, which was. Amazing. So I got to meet, uh, Ashley there, which was awesome.
Had a great time. Uh, highly recommend the event. We were able to attend the second [00:02:00] year just as guests. We went and paid, uh, 'cause we wanted to support our rom and love the event. Um, unfortunately we won't be able to make it there this year, but I would highly encourage you to go. Uh, we'll put a link down below to the Real Coaches summit.
Uh, it's coming up in 2026 here very soon, and Dr. Dwyer will be one of the speakers there also. So if you can make it, I would highly recommend it's a topnotch event. It's in Vegas this year, I believe at the Paris Hotel includes most of your food and everything else. And what I really liked about the event was not only was all the people who attended were amazing, it was that everything was just in one area.
So you weren't getting split out over the entire city or even across the hotel. And then having the meals included allowed you time to just, you know, hang out with other people. And for most of the events so far, at least the two that I've been to, uh, most of the speakers are there [00:03:00] for the, to the whole time.
So you can hang out with them, have lots of side conversations, which not only are the presentations great, but I think the side conversations of going to an event in person. Really can't be replicated. And I know for myself and many of the people I've talked to in fitness, that we can trace back a lot of the opportunities we've gotten from just meeting people in person and hanging out and becoming friends with them.
Not even in a sleazy network sense, but just you're both interested in certain things. You're doing similar stuff, so there's already a kind of a natural connection there. So I would highly recommend it. I don't get paid a dime if you show up or not. Like I said, unfortunately, uh, we won't be there this year, but we'll put a link to that, make sure to check that out, and I think you'll really enjoy it.
A ton of great speakers again this year. Dr. Ashley is presenting on, uh, PCOS made Practical, a Lifestyle first coaching framework for [00:04:00] Real Results. So shout out to me. Good buddy. Iam, tell him I sent you. Check out the Real Coaches Summit. Uh, thank you for listening to the podcast. As always, if you want more information from me, we have a link down below that'll allow you to hop onto the newsletter Absolutely.
For free. So you can check that out. And then we also have the Flex four. So I asked Dr. Dwyer what her top four things would be for improved body composition if she had only picked four. So that content is exclusive to everybody on the Fitness Insider Newsletter list. Again, you can hop onto it, um, down below and you'll see all of the back issues of all the Flux four that we have had before.
And again, those are only going out to the insiders, but it's completely free to join with their email. So, without further ado, here's Dr. Ashley [00:05:00] Dwyer.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Welcome to the program doc. How are you?
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Hello. I'm doing great. It's good fun to be here.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yes. We first met at, uh, a Ram's wonderful conference in Vegas. Going back, is that three or four years now?
I'm losing track of time.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: This is the fourth year. So four years ago.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. 'cause you were at the first one also, right?
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Mm-hmm.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That was. It was super fun and it, it's kind of funny how you get these invites to stuff and at first I was like I don't know. And then I'm like, oh, well that's cool.
Like he's doing it for a good reason. I think it'll be a, a good event. And um, yeah, it turned out to be super fun. Went uh, the following year. Unfortunately we weren't able to make it last year and unfortunately we won't make it this year just 'cause the, we'll be down in South Padre and just the timing to try to get to Vegas from there and pay rent and then pay for Vegas.
And then I'm doing a presentation in Florida the week before that and I'm just like, [00:06:00] ah, it's kind of a bugger, but it's a great event. Real Coaches Summit. People can make it out to it. I would highly encourage them. And you'll be presenting again this year, is that correct?
Dr Ashley Dwyer: I am speaking this year. Yeah.
Went from attendee to speaker. I'm excited.
Dr Mike T Nelson: That's awesome. What are you speaking on?
Dr Ashley Dwyer: I'm speaking on PCOS, so, uh, the title is PCOS Made Practical, so just like actual real world tangible solutions for coaches to take away and help their female clients with PCOS because we're seeing it more and more and more.
So that is gonna be my topic. It kind of landed in my lap as a specialty. It wasn't something I pursued, so it's been kind of fun.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Did you just get more clients with it then?
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Yeah, I got a lot of clients with it. A lot of clients who didn't understand it and then I dove into the research and then seeing what messed, you know, my pharmaceutical career, when we have PCOS, it's just put them on metformin or birth control and that's kind
Dr Mike T Nelson: of right
Dr Ashley Dwyer: where we lead them.
So the lifestyle changes associated with it, the different types, trying to get [00:07:00] them pregnant 'cause they're usually young women who still wanna conceive, they don't have regular periods. So trying to get them back on a regular menstrual cycle and then having a healthy pregnancy and then postpartum. So it's been fun.
And then I just kind of really loved that clientele, who doesn't love making babies, uh, like being responsible for that is kind of awesome. So, yeah, I don't know. It just became like a, a smaller niche in what we do. It's fun.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Very cool. And for people who may not have heard of that, can you just briefly explain what PCOS is?
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Yeah, it stands for polycystic ovarian syndrome. So it is basically a metabolic issue, not even a reproductive one, but generally affects fertility, affects, cycles, higher androgens in these clients. We have a difficult time losing, uh, potentially hair loss, you know, acne, different side effects we don't want.
So it's a, it's a total systemic disease per se. Um, but we really notice it in reproductive issues. [00:08:00]
Dr Mike T Nelson: Interesting. Yeah, I,
I ended up getting, going down that rabbit hole I had probably six or seven years ago now, and I wouldn't say the organization, but I did a whole certification for them on it, which we'll just say I was let go and the certification disappeared into who knows where and was never released, which super bums me out because there was a lot of women who.
Were affected by it. And how I viewed it, and I don't know if you would agree, is that it felt like, to me it was a metabolism issue that was not being addressed. And there's a whole bunch of other stuff on top of it. I'm not just saying it's only metabolism, but I was shocked when I kept pulling all the research on it 'cause they kept showing up.
When I looked at research on metabolic flexibility that people with PCOS tended to be very metabolically inflexible overall. And I was surprised. And now it's a little bit better but. No one was talking about it as metabolism based thing. It was like, yeah, I just take some Metformin, we'll put you on [00:09:00] some, drugs and you're good.
I'm thinking, what? This seems insane.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it it, that's part of what we're gonna be going over in April too, is because two of the broader DAM criteria are increased androgens. So we think like testosterone and reproductive health, and then polycystic ovaries. So again, reproductive health, we're not really taking into account the insulin resistance, the inflammation, the gut health issues, the adrenal issues that also cause it.
So now it's just downstream effects. And so I hope that changes in the future. That's my goal.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Awesome. And on the metabolism side, if you have someone who has PCOS, what would be some practical tips for them to consider?
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Oh man. Uh, so it depends on, again, what type of PCOS they have. But just speaking for the most common type, which is insulin resistant, PCOS, they are usually ones who could benefit from a calorie deficit.
So we just need to make [00:10:00] sure that they're actually in a calorie deficit. Insulin resistance can make that a little hard with sweet cravings. You know, just food cravings, increased fat storage. We need to make sure they are balancing blood sugar throughout the day. So I don't love skipping meals. I don't love fasting.
Protein heavy meals. Fiber is super important. So we don't get rid of carbs, we just make sure they're the right type of carbs. And so once we figure out how to balance blood sugar, eat protein heavy, especially breakfast, get in movement like walks and strength training are gonna be game changers for this clientele.
Even like high intensity interval training once a week can be really helpful for this clientele. So more along the lines, it does come with a psychological component too, of eating less and controlling those cravings. So this is where a coach really comes into play instead of just an ai like, Hey, chat bt create me a meal plan.
S you know, uh, that sounds simple, but, so once we can get those minor things just into play, sometimes we have to do carb consistent diets with these [00:11:00] clients. Sometimes we really do have to restrict calories kinda low, but again, under the supervision of a coach, not on your own. So those are just some like general recommendations for food.
I generally also make their fat like 35% from calories versus just like a typical 25 to 30. So I don't go keto, I don't do anything like that, but I will give them higher fat unless we have inflammatory and then cholesterol is off the charts. So again, it just depends on the client.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. It seemed like for a while, and I'm out of this loop a little bit now, is that keto was the supposed solution for PCOS.
And again, I, I do a lot of stuff with keto. I think it can be useful. I think it's ous ketones can be super beneficial in some cases, but I, I didn't, I could never wrap my head around the rationale for that. But maybe there's more data showing it might be beneficial. I don't know.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Uh, the data that I've seen is short term, it can [00:12:00] help increase the insulin sensitivity, right?
Yep. And help bring A1C down. But long term, there's no real beneficial effect. So I'm like, why are we gonna do this short term when I need to teach them sustainability throughout? Yeah. How to eat, what to eat, how to prioritize fiber. So it's just, I don't use it.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. I saw all the people who had tried it long term and it just seemed to be kind of a disaster.
And I also, when I got in the weeds, it was like kind of the Monday through Friday, I'm keto, and Saturday, Sunday it's all the carbs. And then it was trying to get back to keto Monday through Friday, and I'm like, oh man, even if you. Don't have PCOS or other metabolic issues. Like that's just, those are hard swings, man.
To go from like super high carb to keto to back and forth like the, I mean, I know the proposed, you know, cyclical ketogenic diet and you know, ano had a whole bodybuilding program on that back in the freaking eighties. I think I read his book. I just never had any success with that. [00:13:00] It just seems to be too much of a nutritional whiplash.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: I honestly, it reminds me of fasting, but worse, like we and women, I can't do fasting either, but women, um, especially are diagnosed with like hypothyroidism and Hashimoto. Mm-hmm. So if we already have thyroid issues too, and we need carbs for conversion, we need carbs for overall health, cutting the carbs out by just doing keto and then having to kick in gluconeogenesis and just stressing out our body more.
It was not giving results. I even tried it when I was, oh my gosh. I was still a pharmacist at this point, probably 20 19, 20 20. And I was like, let me just try it to have an opinion on it. And four weeks in, and I'm hypothyroid, I'm on thyroid medication. The first two weeks were awesome. I lost all the water weight and like glycogen, right?
So I was like, I'm super lean. This is great. The last two weeks my, I was even taking vitamin C. My gums were bleeding. Like I was starting to have, my joints were achy. Everything was just like exhaustive and tired. And I was like, this [00:14:00] feels horrible. I'm going back to eating carbs. And I was fine, like within a week or two of introducing carbs back.
It was crazy.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Any other low hanging fruit tips for PCOS?
Dr Ashley Dwyer: I am like, I'm like in the middle of making my presentation, I'm like, what else did I, did I write about, I would say low hanging tips can definitely be having a fruit and veggie at every meal, like creating balanced meals, no snacking. So we really want like a breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and we want, you know, protein, carbs, healthy fats, uh, vegetables in there.
I think we really miss micronutrients and people try and do, even if we're tracking macros, it comes from like an I-I-F-Y-M. Like if it hits your macros, I can eat it, type of thing. And I'm like, not when we're dealing with this, not when we have PCOS. Like we need to be controlling blood sugar. And that's my main goal with them is blood sugar and stress, just kind of stress management.
A lot of these women don't have. Like me time, they're busy work execs. They're busy moms, or [00:15:00] they're, or they're trying to be moms, right? So their schedule doesn't allow for a lot of stress management. So just increasing that for them, because cortisol can drive up blood sugar too. So there's a, there's a lot of probably low hanging tips, but even the ones we've already given, uh, might just be beneficial to implement and let me know how they feel in three to four weeks.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, that was the thing I noticed too, as a pattern was, and again, when you're providing and trying to provide a solution, you're gonna get a, a bias subsection of people, but it seemed like 90 plus percent of the people that we were working with at the time who had PCOS were just crazy stress levels.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Mm-hmm.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Like HRV in the toilet, resting heart rate high. And I think looking back on it now, if I, the thing I would've changed from an exercise standpoint, I don't know if you would agree on this, is I would. I would've been much bigger on some surrogate marker for VO two max and doing more aerobic stuff in addition to [00:16:00] lifting.
But the caveat would be you'd have to be very judicious with how you apply it because you could push someone over the edge by just having 'em do a bunch of stupid cardio for no reason too.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Yeah. Yeah. I, I mean, I don't know if you find this too, but obviously we're, we're kind of strapped for time in some of these clients too.
Yep. Other, so if I want them to, that's the other
Dr Mike T Nelson: issue.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: If I want them to prioritize strength training and then also kind of get steps in, but now I want aerobic training and I have to, we have to sacrifice something somewhere
Dr Mike T Nelson: for sure.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: So we try to, where I can absolutely get aerobic capacity in and up.
But for the meantime, a lot of these women are under muscled as it is. Yep. So we start with some cardio and like maybe two days of strength training and then. This is what this see, this is where like there's no cookie cutter plan for anybody. It's gotta be schedule dependent, person dependent. But absolutely, I even for myself, I'm a, I'm trying to get more into cardio.
I'm like, I know I can, that I need to do. [00:17:00]
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. It's, I never thought I'd be one of those people that's like, do your cardio. I'm like, eh, because you know, you go to school for exercise F they just beat you relentlessly with cardiovascular because that's where almost all the literature is from. It was easier to study people on treadmills and all that kinda stuff.
And maybe a part of me was like, no, I'm gonna be the lifting guy who's gonna do all this. And then you realize once your aerobic capacity gets so low and it's sneaky because you don't, you don't feel it right away because it's a slow decline and everyone's like, oh, I'm just getting older. And I got to the point where I'm like, oh.
I'm just deconditioned massively is my issue. And then once you get it back up and then you go through a few periods of letting it drop, you're like, oh, okay. Now I know the difference. 'cause I was at a level and now I'm below the level. And so it's, I mean, even now, like I don't, I don't really like doing cardio at all, but I just feel so much better.
My energy level is [00:18:00] better, my cognition is better. It's just worth, worth the, the time and the input. But it's a harder sell when you haven't been to that point because it's so sneaky that you just, it's very easy to normalize how you feel now and just go, well, it's probably not gonna be a lot better.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: I mean, and that's even coming from people who do, who eat well and exercise.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Yeah.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Imagine gen pop who doesn't know how good they can feel, you know?
Dr Mike T Nelson: Exactly.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: You made an interesting point earlier, and this is part of the New Western medicine, like help with PCOS, right? Is that you had clients where their HRV was tanked and their resting heart rate was going up. But now GLP ones are being prescribed as like a main stay for PCOS, and one of the side effects of GLP ones is tanking, HRV and increasing testing heart rate.
So in that situation, like, okay, cool, we're in a calorie deficit. We might have help with insulin sensitivity, but now we're crashing our just autonomic nervous system, like everything [00:19:00] is just worse off, or our metabolic function might be worse. So it's gonna be interesting to see how that plays out in the long term.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, I was on the Renaissance Periodization podcast talking to Nick about that too, and I put out an article on it, and it's one of those things that I remember talking to Joel Jameson at the God two years ago. We were comparing notes on this at the Real Coaches Summit about, I'm like, Hey man, have you seen this?
He's like, oh yeah, yeah. And. It, it seems to be one of those things that just doesn't get enough, I don't know, voice around it. And it appears to be, I dunno, what you've seen is that the drug appears to act directly on the sodium channels in the SA node. Mm-hmm. Because I've had some clients where, you know, I thought, oh my God, it's just 'cause they cut their calories too much, they tanked their micronutrition and so we did a whole bunch of stuff, got 'em pretty stabilized and, and pretty much, again, it's a handful of people.
It didn't normalize and that's what left me scratching my head going, what the, 'cause the first few times I saw it, I just thought, oh yeah, we just got too [00:20:00] aggressive. They're not telling me what they're doing. And, but yeah, so there's multiple, it's shown up in every trial so far. Again, they don't always measure HRV, but resting heart rate has gone up.
Um, so yeah. I dunno what your thoughts on that are.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: No, I mean I echo it because I was seeing it too and I'm like, what is going on? So I had to like, I immediately went into like the research and Googling. Yeah, yeah. Like looking at different articles. I'm like, why is this acting on? And then it was essay node and different channels, uh, electrical channels.
And I'm like, what? Okay, so is this something? 'cause I've taken, like you said, I've taken clients out of a deficit because I'm like, we've done this too long, your HRV is crashing. And then we come out and it'll maybe go up like seven points. And I'm like, that's not what I wanted to see. You know? So it's just been a learning curve.
But again, I don't know. I'm sure we have data now on semaglutide especially, but like how this affects someone long term. 'cause it's not good to crash your HIV or resting heart rate,
Dr Mike T Nelson: yeah.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: So we'll see with IDE if it has the same effects. I haven't [00:21:00] really looked at all the data on that one yet, but that one's insane.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Did, did they publish the full study on it? 'cause they did the press release and when I looked, oh God, it was probably maybe five or six weeks ago, the full study hadn't been published yet.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: I don't think so. I think,
Dr Mike T Nelson: yeah, because I keep looking for it and I haven't seen it, but it's been a few weeks and I haven't specifically looked for it yet because I always get a little bit worried when everyone's quoting research and it was the press release from the drug company.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, the last thing I'm seeing is phase two from 2023. I don't think they've published anything for phase three yet.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Okay. Yeah, that makes me wonder too, 'cause it's like I wanna see the actual. Peer reviewed, published study. Again, not that drug companies with law ever, but they might just leave out some things that might be important and, yeah.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: But see, this just proves my point of why before we even reach for those things, I'd like to get everyone's foundations under control. I'd like to get [00:22:00] nutrition, well exercise, sleep, certain nervous system. We need to get all that in place so that when we do take a GLP one, we can see the results. Or even a peptide, like the world with peptides right now is, but, uh, I digress.
That could be a whole other podcast on its own.
Dr Mike T Nelson: We'll come back to it.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Good.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. I, I mean, right now, I mean, I have some clients who have used glp. I have some who don't. I just kind of leave it up to them. I'm like, dude, just talk to your doctor. Like I, I can't. It's not my position to advise you yay or nay.
I will tell you that if you decide not to use them, fine. There's plenty of stuff we can do if you decide to use them. I would argue they're like putting training wheels on the bike, right? They probably will help you. Again, there might be a cost, there's obviously a risk with everything. There's a pro and con with everything, but either way, you're still gonna have to learn the habits and the long-term things because at some point you're probably gonna want [00:23:00] to take the training wheels off.
You're probably gonna go back to your doc and say, Hey, you know, I think I, I hit the WA goal. I want, I've got some good habits now. I want cycle off these things. My, my fear is that GLP ones will be the, the TRT of the next 10 years, meaning people are gonna cycle on and never cycle off and have no desire to cycle off.
And that that makes me. Worried because they're not gonna hire a coach. They're not gonna learn the better behaviors. They're gonna try to cycle off. They're gonna find, oh, I like donuts a lot. Eat more donuts and be like, oops, I'm gonna go back on a GLP. 1, 2, 3, 4, whatever we end up having. And I don't know that, that does make me more worried.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Well, this probably won't help your concerns, but as a pharmacist, I mean, GLP ones were made to be a maintenance medication. They weren't really made to cycle on and off, so technically they are supposed to be something that you [00:24:00] take every day just or every week, whatever the, the dosing schedule is, but,
Dr Mike T Nelson: and that was in a diabetic population, correct.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Well, yes, but also for weight loss. Because what you're seeing in the trials is that people gain the weight back once they stop.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yes, they do.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Duh. Right. So if you follow like Spencer Nadski and just all the other weight loss doctors, I know
Dr Mike T Nelson: Spencer.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Yeah. They are supposed to be maintenance, like blood pressure, like cholesterol, unless you change the habits, like what we're saying.
Right,
Dr Mike T Nelson: right.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: So I work with a bunch of clients on GLP ones also. 'cause I'm like, listen, I either get them and they come in and they wanna come off. So now they're learning the ways that I can help them come off, or they start it while we're together so that they can, they have the habits already now. They just want the like final push or whatever it is.
We work together and then we work together to come off. So if they're working with a coach, I absolutely, for the price of these medications, I know they're already super expensive. And then to also work with a coach, it's not feasible for most people. Yeah. I have no problem with people who actually wanna use it.
It's more the vanity weight loss and it's more the [00:25:00] microdosing. The microdosing perimenopause away, the microdosing inflammation away. And I'm like, I think inflammation is being thrown around too casually online. Like nobody actually understands what it is, and. If we're having this amount of inflammation, like I'm sure we don't need a GLP one, I'm sure we just need to reduce alcohol.
I'm sure we just need to like, you know, step up the veggies, like do something else. So that's, you know, there's my, my, I'm always controversial, but they are made to be maintenance. So when you're like, oh, I fear that people won't come off of 'em, I'm like, they're not really supposed to unless we change the habits.
But what I think, which might add to your fears now too, is I made this probably in 20, oh my god, two or three years ago now, is I feared that it would increase the amount of eating disorders and orthorexia people have, because now we're afraid, we're afraid to gain that back if we do go back to normal eating.
'cause nobody's gonna come up to maintenance. A lot of women don't even know what maintenance is. So now we've been eating so little to come back up to the calorie amount. We're [00:26:00] supposed to, is gonna obviously induce some, some increased weight just from water retention or even just more food in your stomach.
And they're gonna freak out and they're gonna go back on it. Right? So. It's just gonna mentally, it's not healing relationships with food. And that is what I think we most people could benefit from.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And I think if people keep it in the context of what it is, maybe there's some metabolic effect, but basically they're a blunt tool to drastically kill appetite.
And if you want to use them for that, great talk to your doctor, whatever, that's your decision. But like you said, they're not gonna magically make you eat more veggies. They're not gonna put your ass on a rower or a bike or walk outta your house. Or, I think there's this sort of assumption that if I just take this drug, it's gonna fix all of my other issues.
And I'm like, no, it's, it's good for maybe the one thing they were designed for, but like, like everything else, you're [00:27:00] gonna have to put the time and effort into it. And I get a lot of crap for this, but the example I use is take someone like Oprah Winfrey, very public figure. Uh, you can see she's been higher weight, lower weight, you know, throughout her whole career.
Has plenty of money. Can hire a chef, could hire someone to do a lot of the things for her. But even in the best case scenario, at the end of the day, that person, whoever it is, they still have to do the work. They still have to lift the weights, they still have to eat the food. They still have to go to bed at a reasonable hour.
And like nothing we ever do is going to change that fact. That's just the, the way it is. And I feel like the, the sooner people realize that the the better off everything is gonna be. And now I'm like ranting away on my soapbox.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: I mean, I don't know why you're getting crap for it. I agree with you. You can't skip the work and everyone's trying to avoid the foundational work.
So.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And even people I know who work with athletes who make millions of dollars, I've done [00:28:00] consults and worked with some of 'em. Vast majority of the time, they're incredibly under impressed by what I want to do. Like, yeah, you get the weird problem solving cases and the weird, esoteric stuff happens here and there and stuff, and that's cool and stuff.
But most of the time it's just the, the violent consistency of the boring basics. And yeah, once you have that down for a long time, you can, there's other things you can do. There are other esoteric things that might be beneficial along the way, but even in the best case scenario, if you're missing the basics, like there's no peptide, you know, drug, anything else that's, that's gonna save you and, and make up for all of those effects,
Dr Ashley Dwyer: I'm gonna use that violent consistency.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah,
Dr Ashley Dwyer: I love that
Dr Mike T Nelson: because it is like, it, the, again, the, if you're gonna be the person who's in fit and in shape, whatever your definition of that, and you know, that's up to you, everyone's gonna be different. Great. You know, healthy, [00:29:00] whatever your definition of that is. By comparison, at least in the US to general population, you're the weirdo.
Like you're the weird one. And so it is this sort of effort of fighting against entropy and your peer group and just the media and everything else, that it is going to take consistent effort. And yes, it does get easier over time. You do have habits and you know, like we've been doing it long enough now.
Like if I don't exercise, it just feels weird. I'll probably exercise to a high degree the rest of my life, but it's taken decades to, to get to that point. And even then I have a freaking gym in my garage and there's some days like I don't even make it to do even a set of deadlifts, you know, this is just happens.
So it is always, I feel like a constant effort to keep it going.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Oh, a hundred percent. And even with the women we work with, with hormonal issues, like maybe we can get it into remission. But it is going to be constant effort to stay there. Yes. It's not going to be something we just hit [00:30:00] and then we're done and then you can go back to your old life.
You will never be able to have your old life again. That is the point. Right. And the sooner we kind of understand that, the sooner someone will be able to shift identity, see results, keep them go through it, we will be the people who exercise on vacation. Now you will be the person always wondering like protein and fiber At meals.
We will be worried about carrying around a water bottle, like getting in enough water. It just is who you are now.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Welcome. And do you, do you feel if you could change someone's identity, that would be the fastest way to make the most amount of change? My argument would be yes. If I could wave my magic wand out of all the stuff I've looked at over years, if I could just change who you think you are, everything else becomes way easier.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: 2000 million percent. Yes. Because if you don't believe that you're worthy of this change or you don't believe you're someone who exercises, you will constantly [00:31:00] self-sabotage. You will continue bringing yourself back to that point that you think that you're, you know, it could stem back to worthiness, it could stem back to whatever it created that identity in the first place.
But mindset is probably 60% of the whole thing. So, so if we're not shifting that and shifting limiting beliefs and the all or nothing mindset or just, whatever, however your childhood was, I like the saying, did you have a diet mom or did you have a naked mom? 'cause this is where a lot of the thought processes come from.
Yeah. So I'm thankful. I had a naked mom. She was not really worried about diets. She was athletic, like changed in front of us. We got to see the whole thing. But it was still society and school and high school and, and everything that kind of made me wanna be smaller and made me wanna still starve myself and be tiny.
So. You still get those identities here and there throughout growing up. Any
Dr Mike T Nelson: tips or tricks for changing identity? Could be yourself or your working as a coach with [00:32:00] clients?
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Man, it's funny 'cause I still, I still struggle with that myself when it comes to like, business or, you know, I still have imposter syndrome, like I'm speaking in a less than two months and I'm terrified.
So,
Dr Mike T Nelson: ah, you'll do fine.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: So I think
Dr Mike T Nelson: I'll tell Arah only to, to, to send you a few disregarding comments during your talk.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Yeah. He is gonna ask the hard questions around, like, ask, you know, interrupt, pull the fire alarm. So I dunno. So I think you just have to, one of the things that's been helpful for me is like imagining what, like let's say Mike 2.0 would look like Ashley 2.0 would look like.
What would that really confident speaker look like? What would that really fit person look like? What would they do on a daily basis? Would they skip their workout? Would they like indulge in this? Uh, would they just do those things? And the answer is probably no. So you have to start acting like the identity before and, and like pretend you're there.
It's kind of a fake it till you make it situation until it just becomes your new [00:33:00] norm. But you do have to start acting in accordance with what that, what that identity is. And it really helped me to like write down what those behaviors were. Not just think of them, but write it down, see it in person, like see it in writing and then be like, okay, this is what I'm dedicating myself to for the next 30 days.
And like I think it's just getting in reps. It's just practice until we eventually get there. But that was helpful.
Dr Mike T Nelson: I, I would agree. The other thing I've had some clients do, and I I haven't done this for myself for quite a while, is put it in a phrase that is the present moment. And then I have 'em write it out by hand each day in their journal.
So for example, for goal setting, goal setting is easy 'cause it's a a concrete object of I made it or I didn't. Right. It's not a fuzzy thing. The one things I'll write is I am someone who can pick up the 175 pound inch dumbbell. So you're writing it as I am the person who can. Right. So you're, you're consciously trying to [00:34:00] change how you identify with the world.
And again, that phrase could be whatever it is for your, your goals or what you're trying to work on too.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: No, I love that. I think that's great. Like writing little sticky notes as reminders places too. Yep. Uh, I love all of that. The more you can see it, the more you'll believe it. So.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Awesome. We talked a little, go ahead.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Sorry. I was gonna say one of the, it just popped in my head. Yeah. One of the things I try and do too, I'm sure you do as well, is kind of just decrease the negative self-talk. Sometimes I hear like I failed or I'm this or I'm never gonna do this, and I'm like, let's shift that. Let's not use that language.
Let's not see both be so mean to ourselves. I mean, I can be super critical of myself, but you kind of, we have to learn not to do that or else that's what's gonna keep us hold back. Right. So anyway, continue.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, no, I like that. That's great. That was a, a big shift I made in my own coaching practice maybe 10 years ago now.
I don't know, I don't remember the exact date. Um, so I did some work with the Mindset Performance Institute. I was one of their directors of research and that got me [00:35:00] thinking a lot about mindset and stuff, and. The advantage you have of being an online coach is most people communicate via email. You get some video, you get some audio, but you can take time to read their response and you don't, like, in a verbal conversation, you kinda have to think right away on your feet and come back with something.
So I would read these emails and I think it was my own fear of like, not correcting what they said about themselves too soon, because they didn't want 'em to be mad at me. And then one day I'm like, well, that's stupid. Like if they're gonna fire me, they're gonna fire me. Like I'm actually holding them back by not mentioning this in a nice way.
Mm-hmm. Um, and so then I started correcting people's just tone, like what they would say and simple stuff like just awareness. Like, do you realize you said this about you? Or this is a better way to say that. And most of the time, even though they wrote the email, they're like, oh my God, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't realize I was doing that.
You know, like the. Oh, stuff becomes unconscious. And then I should probably get back to doing this, but for a while I would send clients a [00:36:00] little stuffed ant eaters and we would say, so ant is an automatic negative thought, so I would send 'em an anti eater and I'd have 'em put that on their desk. Or the anti eater had to stare at 'em all day.
And so when they had an automatic negative thought, they would hopefully think of the anti eater and like try to rephrase it in their head.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: That's super cute. I like that.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah,
Dr Ashley Dwyer: I've never heard of that before. That's awesome.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Um, you talked about peptides. So tell us a little bit more about that being your background is, you know, pharmacology
Dr Ashley Dwyer: e Yeah, I mean, and then when I say peptides, I'm not even talking about GLP ones.
Like at least those have evidence and data and they're like out on the market. The newest, latest, and greatest craze is regenerative peptides, right? Mm. You have a longevity. Um, GH Kcu, the BPC one 50 sevens, the all of the new, the new things coming out. I am conflicted because, uh, there's no data, there's no long-term [00:37:00] data, right?
There's no side effect profile. There's, they're not, I mean, RFK just shifted. 14 out of 19 of them or something to now go to category one, which can be compounded. That doesn't mean it's gonna be. Di uh, prescribed by a doctor, but you know, now they don't have to have like, not for human consumption on them or for re from research purpose.
Research purpose.
Dr Mike T Nelson: My pet rat wants to get jacked.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Exactly. So I mean, most of this data is in rodent, so we have very limited trials on humans. And I'm like, okay. You always hear like, we're not large rats, right? Like that's the first step, but now let's see how it interacts with women or with women and men.
And then what makes me more concerned is we're not just talking about one peptide. People are doing stacks, right?
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: And so we don't even have data on the one peptide. We surely don't have data on the stacks of peptides taken together. And then with their other supplement protocols, because, you know, they're on a ton of supplement protocols and then even their medications or their disease state.
And I'm like, I don't know. It just scares me with the [00:38:00] potential of cancer growth, tumor growth with, with tissue repair. And I don't know. I'm not, I'm not convinced yet. I'm not at the point where I am ready to make the risk, to take the risk for that. But some people are so. Um, what are, what, what about you?
Do you use them? Do you diagnose that or prescribe them?
Dr Mike T Nelson: So, I've used some peptides, primarily BPC 1 5 7 in Thymosin, beta four, TB 500, whatever.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Mm-hmm.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Through a physician for injuries since probably like 2018. Um, and same doc, same legit source as far as any of us could tell. Uh, wide variety of, of different ailments.
Most of it was site injection, you know, prescribed by a physician. 60% of 'em are like, oh my God, that is the greatest thing we've ever done. Like 40% we're like, I don't know. I didn't see Dick. Like, I didn't see any [00:39:00] difference at all.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Yeah.
Dr Mike T Nelson: And again, you know, very small number, handful of people. Maybe 12, 15 at max.
You know, different issues, different backgrounds. Generally me, generally metabolically healthy for the most part. Um, and so that always bugged me. I'm like, again, N one, you could have placebo effects, you could have all sorts of different things going on, but at least it was relatively controlled source, you know, protocol was relatively the same.
And yeah, I always feel very conflicted. 'cause on one hand, I don't wanna be this person saying, oh, these are horrible. Like, they're bad. Like there's no effect or whatever. Like we, we don't know. Like even with BPC, like the animal research is pretty damn interesting on it. Mm-hmm. But I think there's like, what?
Two human trials. One was a direct, um, basically needle into the joint space, which did show some improvements. Again, I would not recommend someone who's not a physician or licensed to do [00:40:00] that, to be stuffing needles in your own joint space. Yeah. Especially if you don't know what you're doing. Um, and the other one I think was more just a retroactively like, kind of self-report, like how did you feel?
That type of thing. So yeah.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: One of them was only 12 people also. Right.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Very small. Yeah. Very small sample sizes. Yep, exactly. And that's on one of the peptides. We probably have more data than other ones.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Yeah,
Dr Mike T Nelson: and I mean, you get into, I just did a whole report on, you know, SS 31, which is supposed to be this sort of exercise mimetic, mitochondrial thing, and there is actually a fair amount of data on that one.
At the end of the day, like yeah, if you've got a, a specific syndrome that might be beneficial if you don't, I, I doubt it. And then you've got, you know, like, SLU PPP 3, 3, 2, and all these other. Ones that are failed exercise mimetics and you know, go back to, Carter in and things like that, that maybe not necessarily a peptide, but were abandoned because of side effects.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Yeah.
Dr Mike T Nelson: And there's no human [00:41:00] subject studies on that. The dosing that humans were using was very low. And then you point that out and everybody gets mad at you. And I'm like, how did you come up with microgram dosing? Like, that doesn't, that wasn't even a dosing for a rat in the freaking study, which is either telling me, you know it and you're just underdosing it, or you didn't even bother to read the animal research.
And then of course, now the trend is, you know, using higher amounts of dosage, as in people reported crazy gains from it. And I don't know, it just, it feels like it's the absolute wild, wild west. And then you add in that there's plenty of older reports showing that when they tested a lot of these peptides, like 85% of 'em were not even what they said they were.
So what are people injecting? Like what are you doing?
Dr Ashley Dwyer: I mean, that just goes to show it's like a supplement. Supplements aren't regulated either. Probably half of what people take don't even have the dose in it. Much less like a clinical, clinical evidence dose for, for things like, my [00:42:00] favorite is the creatine gummies that come out and how much crazy Oh yeah.
Is actually in the gummies and it's like none. Yeah, I am with you. I, I was gonna say, if I were to ever take a peptide because I needed it, it would probably be more along the lines of BPC 1 57 or C 500 for an injury. Right?
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yep.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Or even like gut health now. And the oral, the oral versions, I'm like, is it hitting by like first pass?
Is it even making it, is it even bioavailable? So, and then you see the exercise M medics, which I think are really interesting. And I'm like, okay, we have a dietary restrictive peptide and now we have an exercise M medic. Like, do people even need to do anything anymore except inject cells with needles?
What I find frustrating, especially working with women, is you get this one like influencer who's not a doctor, not anything online, and they're like, oh my God, like G-H-K-C-U, look at my hair growth, look at these babies. Look at, look at whatever. And I'm like, they're, the data doesn't even show like anything and injectables.
And that's what they're, they're kind of selling, right? And you have 50,000 likes on this TikTok, and I'm like, oh, I've already lost 'em. I've already [00:43:00] lost the, the fight. And the, the comments are just like sending the keyword or just like teach me. And it's just, again, I think in the realm of quick fixes here and there, like what can get us to where we wanna go faster?
And one of my coaches, we were on the same, the same wavelength this week. She just made a post today about like, oh my hair's growing more. 'cause I'm eating more. Like a client reported that I'm like, yeah, you're eating more protein and eating more calories now. You can actually prioritize hair growth, nail growth.
Yeah. You know, you have the keratin and the collagen breakdown from amino, so. I'm never gonna shut up about it, but like, I'm still gonna keep practicing and preaching foundations if and when more data comes out that is more promising, I think we'll see it in the future. And, you know, maybe the bodybuilding community will be like we told you.
So yeah, we'll be like, okay, well now I'm finally like, feeling comfortable. Awesome. So we'll see. It'll be interesting. That's for sure.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. I, I should probably do a post on this, but I do think one of the benefits [00:44:00] of the reclassification is it may actually allow more research, because I won't say institution, I won't say any names, but I was helping someone to potentially do a study on BPC.
Um, big university, they had access, they had patients who were coming in for, you know, some surgeries, joint replacements, stuff like that. But the two big issues are, one, how do you convince an IRB board that you should study this research chemical that has like two human uses ever published. Again, you can show animal safety data and things like that.
And then two, who's gonna pay for it? Like we had a potential company who might have been able to pay for it, but they kind of backed out because, and I get it, if you're a research chemical company only, it looks kind of weird that you're sponsoring human subjects trials, even though that would be the next logical step.
And if the data is positive [00:45:00] and it does show that it's efficacious, is it no longer a research chemical? Does it go back to a pharmaceutical company is trying to get a license for it? Like what happens too? A compound that may make up, you know, a third of all your peptide sales, right? So you may be trying to do the right thing for humanity and shooting yourself in the business foot again.
Yeah. You can make arguments about that. So it's harder and then someone's gotta pay for it, right? The university's like, Hey, we, you know, who's paying for this? Like, where's the money coming from? All that kinda stuff. So I'm hoping that the reclassification will allow it to, someone would pay for actual studies on it, because otherwise we're left in the exact.
Same boat we're in now of, oh look, more animal data, which is interesting. But you know, show me the human subjects trials. Oh wait, there isn't any, so we're like,
Dr Ashley Dwyer: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, I'm even hoping just for more regulation, like more clinical dosing substance. Sure thing. Like, safe pharmacy [00:46:00] practices type of thing, where we're actually getting what is supposed to be in the model.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Yeah. Totally.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Yeah. But I mean, even funding across the board for research is kind of cut right now, so we'll be, that
Dr Mike T Nelson: was horrible.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Yeah. It'll be interesting to see how that changes with the Health Secretary reclassifying it. It's
Dr Mike T Nelson: all, yeah. It's a whole nother podcast. But basically, yeah, NIH has been completely gutted.
Department of Education's been gutted. Like there's nobody even sponsoring cancer research to the degree they were before, much less frigging peptides. So,
Dr Ashley Dwyer: yeah. Uh, well, like I said, if he's making the changes, maybe some funding will go to it, you know, so.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. I hope so. Yeah. Um, and I would agree, like, it, it, my basic minimum stance is, okay, if you're gonna allow these things to be legal, great.
I don't, I don't think they should be illegal. I'm kind of more of a libertarian and that kind of stuff, like, make it legal. But for God's sakes, spend money on research so we know what the f [00:47:00] we're doing with this, and spend money to educate people so they can make an intelligent decision, maybe with the guides of a health coach, a physician, someone who's more educated than they are to make an intelligent decision about what they want to do.
They should be able to get legitimate product, verify that the product is, if it's injectable, for God's sakes, hopefully it's sterile. Hopefully the thing you say is in the bottle is actually in the bottle. Again, you could say the same thing with supplements. Supplements are regulated, however, the enforcement of it is not very good, and you unfortunately do have companies who are still not meeting label claims, which.
Pisses me off to no end.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Same. And you, you kind of equated, this just popped into my head, like GLP ones to TRT before. And I think in our space when we're seeing influencers or coaches or anybody, it's now almost become the new like Natty versus not Natty. Oh yeah. People aren't disclosing. They're taking these things and then you just think that you can get that same [00:48:00] body and you're like, no, you can't.
So that's another thing we're seeing. So we just need transparency all around, like what's in the bottle? We need the data. We need people to say they're on it. That's all I want is transparency.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, I, I agree with that. I think back to the old bodybuilding ads of whatever pro bodybuilder, like I started taking creatine.
It's like Uhhuh. Yeah, it was creatine. That's it. That did that. That's it. You know? And even like the whole influencer, there's a whole trend it seems now for. If you just look good, everybody assumes you might know what's going on. Right. And the compounds and other things that are being used that are not being disclosed.
And even behind the scenes. Again, I won't name any names, but you see some of these people's blood work. Can you see some of the things in the past, and I'm sure you've probably worked with some of these people too, like I've worked with a few, we'll say, [00:49:00] fitness competitors who were on many magazine covers.
One lady in particular, I worked with her 12 years after. And man, the amount of costs I think a lot of these people pay that is never disclosed. And it's not up to me, it's, it's her, her thing to disclose whenever she wants. I'm not gonna say anything, but we don't see the full cost of a lot of these things that are going on that look really good in the short term.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Yeah, I mean, again, another podcast episode on its own, but competing is not healthy. When I looked,
Dr Mike T Nelson: oh no, like
Dr Ashley Dwyer: that, they had the best body as a competitor, I was the unhealthiest in my life. So I can't imagine, you know, these, these peptides and steroids and anabolics and everything, they just prolong, they, they allow them to do it and their body to keep up kind of, but again, at what cost later on to your hormones, your fertility, everything.
No, thank you.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. So I mean, your practice, like how do you work with that? Because I'm sure you get [00:50:00] requests for not necessarily drugs, but you know, peptides and, you know, I can't open my inbox without having a question about. Weird supplement, X, Y, z that I've still, and I researched some of this stuff and that there's one the other day I still had never heard of it.
Yeah. Um, how do you kind of walk people through that, who are, let's say they're already a paying client, so let's say they're all right, I trust you, I, I agree with you. I'm gonna sign up to your program. How do you kind of walk them through that process?
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Yeah. So it depends on what they're asking for, but like we go through the benefits and the costs.
Like, why do you want this? First I'll ask, why do we wanna start this supplement? What did you see? What did you hear? Things like that. We'll walk through if it actually works and has the claims and data that the internet is saying it does. Like I can provide the education for them. We'll do risks versus benefits.
If it's something that's just an over the counter supplement, uh, you know, I can recommend it to them. But like, also ask your doctor, make sure it doesn't conflict with any of your medications. Whatever. I know I can do that, but I'm not their [00:51:00] doctor. So, and then if it is a GLP one or it is like a peptide, I do have some.
Networking, like relationships where I can refer them to someone who can dispense a peptide if they really want it. I haven't actually used that yet. We just haven't had a client who's, you know, I do have a client who's taken BPC and TB 500 and for an injury, and yeah, he had her own source, but we did talk about the risks and the benefits, and then ultimately it is up to the client's choice to do what they wanna do, and I'll support them through it and monitor for side effects.
GLP ones will go through their doctor, not like a influencer, like, what is it, LEMD or, or any of those like online portals. We're not doing that. We're not doing ro, we're not doing any of that. So I just like to lead with education. And, you know, I will flat out say like, I don't think we need this. I think we need to get a little stronger with the foundations first, or whatever we're kind of missing.
And if we are at the point where I'm like, okay, we have tried all the things, like, I actually [00:52:00] think this would be a good idea or the next step, like a, a plausible next step as long as we have enough time to work together while using it, worth the consult.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And then I have, I, I do a similar approach, right?
And there are some people, like clients who are like, Hey, you know, I wanna try this. Great, you know, one client in particular, I set him up with a guy in the peptide space who I trust, I think is a good dude because at the end of the day, in lieu of not much research based, you are left with someone who has a high volume of anecdotal data.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Yeah.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Unfortunately, that's probably your best bet in that field right now. Um, and he came back with just a laundry list of these peptides to try and I'm like. Okay, here's your deal. Like if we do this, it's up to you. We're gonna do your blood work basically before and after. Mm-hmm. But I said, if this works, you will not have any idea which one of those five compounds, assuming you have the budget for it, had the [00:53:00] biggest effect.
Or we can pick one. We think that has probably the greatest effect. You can do that for a period of time, you know, monitor your blood work and stuff and then see what the effects are. You know, and the, the handful of times I've done different compounds with clients just as a one-off, I've been kind of under impressed on the effects overall.
And I know that's not popular. 'cause it seems like everyone's like, oh my God, this was like the craziest thing I've ever done. And I don't know so far, again, very limited data. I've been unimpressed by just these single off ones. And again, like you said, maybe it's a combination, maybe it's these other peptides, who knows?
But I think we underestimate the. Effect of the placebo and the fact that with no coaching people left to their own devices. We see the supplements too. How many other changes did they make? I guarantee if someone's spending 500 to a thousand dollars a month on peptides, they're probably doing some other positive [00:54:00] changes associated with it too.
And we tend to forget that that's probably going on also.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Yeah, I mean, I'd hope for their sake, right?
Dr Mike T Nelson: I would hope so.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: I am a big believer in the placebo effect and the mental energy shift towards like, oh, I'm doing this now so I'm healing, and then that just like kind of goes with it. I was answering the question as if it was like a one-off supplement recommendation, but yeah, for sure.
This I get a lot of shit for. We're not starting three things at a time. We're not starting five things at a time. Right? Like I need to know what we need to take out, continue with. So even dietary changes like we'll give. I'll give maybe three to five things to implement at one time that I know can work and coexist together for foundational stuff.
But if we're starting supplements, if we're starting anything, it's slow. And clients hate that. They hate it 'cause they want it now. But if we have an issue, what do I do? Stop all of them and introduce each one. Like we're just taking more time at that point. So I'm with you. I think we have the same philosophies and mindsets [00:55:00] around a lot of it.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And you probably do something similar, but my little stop gap then is, okay, if you can't follow up with the actions that we've both agreed upon, then no, I'm not gonna give you four more supplements because you can't eat your broccoli. It's like that you, at some point, there's things you kind of have to do to move forward.
And if you don't like broccoli, fine. We'll find something else. We'll work around it. We're not saying it's broccoli or the highway type thing, but there's some things, you know, after you've done this long enough, like. If you can't do basic exercise, you're gonna be very limited on the changes you can make.
If you can't do a lot of nutritional changes, they're gonna be very limited on the change you can expect. It's that, that's not my rules. That's just how physiology works. There's no way around it.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Yep. I think bartering is one of the my favorite things that I do that clients also probably hate. I laugh. I spoke about it on Instagram that I told a client that you're not working out at all unless you can get over 1200 calories.
[00:56:00] She was just consistently undereating for how active her life was and how much she wanted to train. And I was like, this is our deal. You eat every day at your calorie amount or no workouts. Yeah. And she did pretty well. So I was like, okay, there we go. Like I'm, I'm taking away activity if you cannot eat.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Awesome. Well, where can people find more information about you?
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Oh yeah. You can find me on Instagram. That's probably the best place. And where I'm most active. So my handle is at Dr. Dwyer. So Dr.
DWER. Just shoot me a message. Say, Hey, introduce yourself. You have a question? Ask it there. Best place.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Awesome. Well, thank you so much and I really appreciate all the great information you put out and I'm sure you will do great on your talk coming up. And if people can go to the Real Coaches Summit, I'll give out another plug for that too.
I don't make any money off it, but it's a great conference. Great people. Uh, if you go there give yourself a hug, give a ram a hug and tell everybody I said hi.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: [00:57:00] Yeah. And we're gonna miss you. I'm sad, but it was good to catch up. Thanks.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yes. Good to talk to you too. Thank you so much for all the great info.
Really appreciate it.
Dr Ashley Dwyer: Oh, you're welcome.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Awesome.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to the podcast. Really, really appreciate it. Huge. Thanks Dr. Ashley Dwyer for all of her amazing information. Uh, we'll put links to where you can find her on the old Instagram. Uh, always has a lot of really great stuff, so I'd highly recommend you check her out. Make sure to follow all her stuff.
As we mentioned, if you wanna see her speak in person, plus a ton of other great professional speakers from the fitness area. Uh, make sure to check out The Real Coaches Summit. We'll put a link down below. URL is just simply real coaches summit.com. So, Dr. Dwyer is presenting on PCOS made Practical Lifestyle First Coaching Framework for Real Results.
Um, I was honored to speak at the First Real Coaches Summit four years ago now, and it was an amazing event. [00:58:00] Really, really enjoyed it. Uh, Jody and I were able to go the second year. Unfortunately, we could not make it last year and. Unfortunately we can't make it this year either. Um, but I highly recommend you check it out.
I told my buddy, AAM, I sent you, I don't make a dime promoting it, but it is a great event and I wanna support him, and he puts on a great time, amazing event. It'll be at the Paris Hotel in Vegas this year. Includes most of your meals. Everyone gets to hang out in the same area. So if there's presenters and speakers, a lot of times you're able to talk to them, um, in person at the off times, even just a lot of the attendees, everyone else.
Those kind of hallway conversations I've found to be, uh, super, super useful, both from a information side and you know, just getting to meet people and, and hang out. I can attribute a lot of the opportunities I've had to people I've met at a ton of in-person events. So check that out. Check out all all of Dr.
Ashley Dwyer's wonderful [00:59:00] information on Instagram. As always, if you want her top four items for better body composition, the Quickfire list, check out the flux four down below. Put in your email list or email address actually, and you'll be on the newsletter list with all the other fitness insiders completely free.
And we'll send you all the back catalog of the top four items from podcast. That was never released on the podcast, so it's only there. So check that out below. Thank you so much for listening to the podcast. We really appreciate it. If you could do us a favor by hitting the old like button and subscribe and download, especially if you're on the old YouTube there, trying to get our YouTube subscribers up, even though the vast majority of our content is, is still audio only, but.
I working on that. If you have time, leave us a review. It goes a long, long ways to helping us with distribution of the podcast. So thank you so much again for [01:00:00] listening. Got a ton of huge guests coming up, uh, coach Kevin Dein. We've got some zone two cardio debate with Christie Ari Winton's. Gonna talk about red light therapy.
Dr. Scott Scher. Um, whole bunch more stuff coming up after that, so make sure to tune in and subscribe. As always, thank you so much for listening. We'll talk to you again next week.
Speaker 3: Hey, what are you doing? I dropped my gum. Hey lady, would you toss my gum up?
You could have taken it out of the wig first.
Speaker 4: This podcast is for informational purposes only. The podcast is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. You should not use the information on the podcast for diagnosing or treating a health problem or disease, or prescribing any medication or other treatment.
Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider before taking any medication. Or nutritional supplement, and with any questions you may have regarding a medical [01:01:00] condition, never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it. Because of something you have heard on this or any other podcast, reliance on the podcast is solely at your own risk.
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