Welcome back to the Flex Diet Podcast. I’m Dr. Mike T. Nelson, and in this episode, I’m joined by the legendary Coach Cal Dietz from the University of Minnesota. This was originally a bonus call for the Phasic 2 book, but it was packed with so much gold, I had to bring it to the podcast. We dig into a wide range of performance topics, including everything from the surprising benefits of using water bags in training to how footwear can affect pain and mechanics. Cal and I also discuss strategies for building muscle and improving body composition, including phasic loading for powerlifters, the nuances of cluster training, and how to train the aerobic system without compromising recovery. We even touch on some sport-specific advice, like adjusting training for cross-country athletes and the critical distinction between EU stress and distress in programming. Tons of actionable takeaways here for coaches, athletes, and curious nerds alike. Sponsors: Tecton Life Ketone drink! https://tectonlife.com/ DRMIKE to save 20% LMNT electrolyte drink mix: miketnelsonlmnt.com Available now: Grab a copy of the Triphasic Training II book I co-wrote with Cal Deitz here.
Welcome back to the Flex Diet Podcast. I’m Dr. Mike T. Nelson, and in this episode, I’m joined by the legendary Coach Cal Dietz from the University of Minnesota. This was originally a bonus call for the Phasic 2 book, but it was packed with so much gold, I had to bring it to the podcast.
We dig into a wide range of performance topics, including everything from the surprising benefits of using water bags in training to how footwear can affect pain and mechanics. Cal and I also discuss strategies for building muscle and improving body composition, including phasic loading for powerlifters, the nuances of cluster training, and how to train the aerobic system without compromising recovery.
We even touch on some sport-specific advice, like adjusting training for cross-country athletes and the critical distinction between EU stress and distress in programming. Tons of actionable takeaways here for coaches, athletes, and curious nerds alike.
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Speaker: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the Flex Diet Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Mike to Nelson. On this podcast, we talk about all things to increase performance muscle and improve body composition, all without destroying your health in a flexible framework. Today we have a treat for you. We have a call that was originally a bonus call for everyone who picked up the Phasic two book that I co-wrote.
Well, my good buddy, coach Cal Dietz here at the University of Minnesota, uh, from February, but I wanted to release this to everyone because there's just a ton of really good information in here. And yes, of course, I would love for you to pick up the Phasic training to book, which is out now with, uh, myself and Coach Cal Dietz.
So in this podcast here now. This originally was done as a Zoom call, so uh, [00:01:00] we'll have the video up on YouTube also 'cause we do make a couple references to some things you might want to see in video a little bit better. We talk about the book, some results from it. Demonstrate the impact of a water bag.
You're probably like, what the hell is that? But I have used this with our online clients when needed, and it's been super, super helpful. Uh, everything from footwear and its impact upon performance. Combining drills for optimum results, pain improving movement, reducing pain, uh, starting point, how to do phasic loading for power lifters, cluster training, modifications for cross country runners, eustress versus distress training, and a ton more.
So Cal's just a wealth of, uh, awesome information. And I think you will get a lot out of this call, which is now a podcast. And if you want more on that, [00:02:00] uh, you can sign up to the Phasic Training two, uh, newsletter. If you can just go to www dot phasic two, that's the number two.com. So phasic the number two.com.
And when you're on that page, you will be able to pick up the new Phasic training two physical book. And there'll be a little popup there. You can hop onto the newsletter. We'll give you something very cool, uh, for free. So check that out. There, I think you'll really enjoy the book. It was, uh, definitely a labor love.
Took about nine years to get it done, various stops and starts and redoing things. And then Cal had more new stuff and finding out ways to explain it. And our goal with the Triassic training two book is, uh, we've got. Many new methods for training, primarily more athletes. But we have used this, uh, some of the thoughts for body composition and it's set up [00:03:00] to augment your training or even start from scratch.
We start all the way from what do you do for proper warmup all the way through training, uh, how to transfer and get the most effect for your athletes on the field, not just in the weight room. And we even talk a ton about the aerobic system in this book. It's probably like 30% of the book is actually dedicated to different aerobic training, uh, methods.
'cause what Cal figured out many years ago, and I ran into the same thing, is even if you are training for only strength and power, at some point, if your aerobic system is not well developed, it is going to limit your ability to do high quality work to develop. The other end of the physical spectrum.
So again, while the book is not geared to endurance athletes, uh, the aerobic system and the endurance part of the equation is still super important. Uh, but again, there's a specific ways of which and how you would do that. [00:04:00] So, uh, check that out and enjoy this conversation with a good buddy. Coach Cal Dietz.
Uh, if you're looking for electrolytes, check out my friends below at LM and T. I'm drinking the grapefruit one today, which is one of my new favorites. Uh, they also have a lemon flavor, which I haven't tried yet, but I'm super stoked to try it next month. But if we're really good reports about that, uh, if you're looking for ketones, check out my friends at Teton Ketone Esters.
Uh, ketones are another fuel source that your body and brain can use. Uh, there's no caffeine or anything like that. Again, not that I am against caffeine, but sometimes you have to do a little more cognitive work and it's later in the day. I've used this a fair amount with clients and consults I've done for er nurses and docs and a lot of people who have to do shift work because they may have three or four hours of their shift to go yet.
However, they have to go back home and sleep, so they don't [00:05:00] really want to use anything. There's a stimulant that's gonna keep them up. And further impair their sleep. So, uh, Teon has been great for them, so check them out below. Use the code, Dr. Mike, save you some money. I am an advisor to them and an ambassador in full disclosure.
Uh, so here you go. Enjoy this q and a call, uh, with my good buddy, coach Cal Dietz.
cal-qa-250205-175313_Recording_1920x1050: And there's the man himself, Mr. Cal. Sorry, I was on. I just had to shut the background noise down a little bit. We were in the wait room. So, anyway well, I hope you guys enjoyed reading. Finishing through the book. I know some people were telling me they're reading it twice. Now I was like, I hope it wasn't that confusing.
Hopefully, hopefully it's just because there's a good information in there. And cause Mike did a good job of unconfusing what I what appears to be confusing to say the least. So anyway the and we can get into some questions that people have asked me via other [00:06:00] stuff. But would anybody want to kick this off in regards to.
, What some questions that they may have, some clarifications, whether it may be, or maybe even things that they put in their training system because of this.
Anybody? Hey, can you hear me? Okay, Brad. Hey, quick question for you. Do you have any application or any can you describe some of the stuff you use the water bags for? Yeah. So. The water bags and I don't use them a whole lot to be honest with you here's what transpired when I found the water bags as I and really it's just I use it for pregame and I use it before the training session.
And really what it was the, was essentially turning on the lateral sling and the spiral sling. And it was pretty profound. I can't remember when did we put it all in the book, but did it, did I describe the story in the book? [00:07:00] Of the water bag turning on the slings. I don't think I did. No, because I actually have that rope for something else.
I'm sorry. Look, I have a lot of things, right? So I can't exactly. So, so guys, here's what happened. I had a female athlete who had a who's had a broken foot for three years and she refused not to She didn't refuse, but like she chose not to get surgery because she's a goalie. And then that would miss her next opportunity to make a national camp.
So with that being said, she just kept, and we managed it. Right. So, but a lot, like in the third year, what was, what's ha what was happening a lot was that her sling glute med. And her TFL were shutting off and those those two muscles run up and down those slings that I'm talking about. And and I'm going to actually maybe have a slide here for you.
Because this is pretty scary with the water [00:08:00] bags. What it did. So I think. Jodi, can I share my screen? I don't know if you know how to disable it, Jodi. Or let me share my screen. Yeah, give me just a second. Let me see if I can. No worries. I appreciate it. I appreciate it because I don't know how to do that from your end if you're the administrator.
So, so, but the point was is her and I have data on this. It's pretty profound. And so her muscles would be shut off because she has some pain in a broken boat. And I could, we do our PR and we would turn it on. And we knew it could stabilize for a bit. Well, something Chris Corfis said to me years ago about the water bag, how it changed guys running for him at times because they had weak links or issues.
So. Yeah. And then I just got that. So this is pretty terrifying. I'm going to share this right now. And you can see [00:09:00] here. So this was the athlete and this is a 1080 when she runs. So you can see her acceleration wasn't bad. She was getting, more acceleration. But then here's where the left. foot problem.
Maybe you want, let's say left, right, left, right, left. Yes. So we always start on our left foot when we do this. So that then when we go back and look at things, so her left foot problem you can see like right here compared to the right foot, you can see all the way through this was her left foot.
Okay. The difference is huge, and this is through a certain power zone. And then when she got to top speed, it was a little bit less. But again, there's a little less there's a little bit less, force at top speed. So the point is she had these problems. This is a 1080. And then here's where the water bed came in.
So I had her just run a 10 meter. Water bag run. And look what happened after [00:10:00] that. We're talking one minute later, you can see what disappeared the deficits because those, the spiral sling and the lateral sling actually turned on. So the water bag, to me, what I use it. Is profound, is a profound activation, even when I still like the boat, the broken bone in the foot and the pain did not go away.
But just by holding a water bag with that instability and being unstable, the brain goes, I have to activate every muscle. I'm going to override any compensations. I'm going to override. Any pain I have because this is a dangerous thing for me because it's so unstable and I'm going to activate all my muscles and when she took so legitimately ran, got a number, did the water bag, 10 meter run, 20, whatever it is, it can be a skip, it can be backwards, right?
It doesn't [00:11:00] matter. She ran this and then bam. It's fixed. So, and folks, I'm not kidding. I literally went back and turned the muscles on, so I might have that test. Yeah, here's the test. And when you can say this, and actually, so there's a glute med test right there. So all I do is with the glute med, when they do it, I just lay her down, and this is a strength test, and I just pull in to check the glute med.
And you can see if it's on or off. Okay. And then the next test we'll do is the TFL. So the little muscle up here, internally rotate, and you're about 30 degrees up. And you're trying to push to the midline of the body onto the table. So these would always fail when she did this test, when we did this test with her.
So right here, you can see she'd fail and she came back. We tested the muscle, tested the [00:12:00] 10 80, and it was profound. So how I do the water bag. Isn't in my training unless I know there's a rehab. So I would believe this would be unbelievable for rehab. I'm not going to kid you, but in my opinion, and I just went to an NBA team, showed them this.
Now they're adding this into their warmup on the court. The guys go do something, whatever they normally do. And then they grab a water bag and run 20 meters with it, holding it. That's it. You can put it above your head. You can hold it in your chest. Does not matter. I got the same results. Maybe you'll get more results.
Something else. I just didn't test. But the point is one run and the water bag turned the entire sling system on. And when I'm saying lateral sling, like here's the lateral sling. So the lateral sling will go from the arch all the way up. They'll go all the way up to into the inside hamstring over here to the glute medius.
And then over to the QL and then up [00:13:00] to the other side. And the spiral sling. The spiral sling, one second maybe I have to get out. The spiral sling is this one. It'll run from the tibialis, in my opinion. And these other muscles, but runs right through the TFL and then lower transverse abdominus.
So anytime I've found that the TFL is off and not stabilizing, the lower transverse abdominus, when I say lower, I'm talking the belly button to the hip bone right here. That muscle's off and I muscle test it, which goes up to the shoulder. So this is how I use a water bag. And it's really the only time I use it is to activate with, it takes three seconds to five to run 20 meters at a jog and a slight sprint to turn this thing on.
So what I'm going to do though. Is I got a bunch of information on here. So, so when I say this, like this lateral sling the RPR [00:14:00] spots to fix it are listed right here. But if you have a soft tissue person to fix this problem in your athletes, like here's all the muscles that I have the massage therapist do on my athletes when they go to a massage therapist and I know they have a sling.
Because there's times where I keep turning the sling on and it doesn't necessarily Stay on because we got a problem somewhere. And then when the massage therapist goes through some of these muscles and some of these are tough to get to in the lower shank, it's pretty profound. The results now, obviously I'm an owner of RPR and I want people to say RPR works and if I need to get a kid really turned on that day for a game or practice or performance, I can, but a massage therapy session is the, is even better than RPR because it seems to last longer, but be aware if you do this on game day.
It may shut it down for a few hours, the massage. Where RPR is not as abrasive and it turns it on and this is what I've tested and then the other one would be [00:15:00] The spiral sling fixes are right here And in what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna paste this in the chat this slide Presentation for people so you can I would get that link and then there it goes I put it in there and feel free to share that with people.
So the Mike the question was how do I use water bag? In training, so I think I just covered it there. Good to see you back Mike. I'm glad you're not gonna get caught up with a It was a passport. People might have to run the passport. Yeah. Anyway, but enough of that. But your thoughts on waterbed training, Michael.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Since you, since we talked about it, I had, I started having my online clients do it and similar when I told them to do RPR or told them to do the go trail, they're like, what the hell's wrong with you? I'm like, no, just literally go try this as part of your warmup. And so far when they've done it, it seems to work really well.
Yeah. Surprisingly enough. The nice part is, like, you probably said, you don't need a lot of observation. It's pretty simple in execution [00:16:00] to do. Sometimes trying to explain RPR can be a little bit more intensive. But, it's, in execution, very simple. And, so far, I've found it to work quite well.
Participant: Yeah. And then Mike, the other thing, actually, I want to make a note, I put the screen back up here on this, the craziness of of the differences from one minute apart, but the water bag does this.
But what also does it? And this is why when I said, Hey, the water bag, the brain thinks it's unstable. So it turns the survival mechanism on and overwrites. Compensation patterns. The other thing that does it was high was overspeed towing. So I actually had this female with that broken foot do overspeed training and literally, and even her, so I remember the day I did the over speeded with it just to experiment her so ass wasn't working very well and she'd done a ton of workouts.
So it was fatigued and rightly so. I think it was at the end of the week and. [00:17:00] Which isn't shocking that the psoas is like off at the end of the week, right? Because she stressed a lot of things working hard sometimes three workouts a day and lo and behold Every muscle literally lit up even muscles that were off for a long period of time in people So so the next few weeks I spent just I would test muscle tests like you saw people high speed pull in one rep and when they came back Because I assume the brain goes I look to survive this and not fall and break something I have to turn everything on so I know that the water bag now for whatever reason I'm not sure that like a Bosu ball or something under the foot actually turns things on.
I think it can in some people, but I tested it, but it doesn't turn on to the magnitude that the water bag or over speed running. And that's just something for people to realize. Anyway, I spent 10 minutes on that. So maybe I shouldn't spend that long, but anyway, there's a lot of insight there. [00:18:00]
Dr Mike T Nelson: What we had a quick question on that.
Any particular weight or any parameters for the water bag Kyle?
Participant: Yeah, no, I just get the normal water bag and it could be a slush pipe. I think you know what I mean, but right around Yeah, and I think I honestly I think I measured mine were about 20 pounds So but there's no magic I if you fill something up too much, it might not slush enough Right, and then if it's too light, it might not cause the brain to go.
Oh, it's a little not so I think anywhere Honestly between 15 to 20 To 25 pounds, as long as it slushes it's it's stable causes instability. Yeah. It's pretty good.
Dr Mike T Nelson: And then I go back to that upper body stuff. We deal with instable objects all the time, but unless you are playing golf during an earthquake or something like that, like the lower ground doesn't move as much.
So it might be just a, how we're wired specificity wise that those things seem to work better than trying to make everything unstable below yourself.
Participant: Yeah. Well, the other [00:19:00] thing too, Mike I know Dan Fichter and Chris both experimented many times with just running beside, like get two or three bands tied together and have the athlete run and it would turn muscles on.
So, they're pulling literally right beside in parallel. So, the athlete's going straight up the band tensions pulling like, like we talked about in the book with the 1080, right? But the band tension and they run along the side. And it literally lights up some of these slings and muscles that aren't working for the athlete.
And then the athlete goes running and they saw it. So it's pretty, yeah. So it's really, like you said the ground, I think stable, but then there's some other force, imposing a force on them. So
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, and real quick, I've used more often lately, one side, just moderately light suitcase deadless for in between sets for like a hundred feet back and forth, and because you have to reflexively stabilize the other side as you're moving that seems to work pretty good too for sure.
Yeah,
Participant: I wondered if you could wonder if I could do a suitcase on one side and hold above with a, a water bag on the [00:20:00] other and or, and I'm sure if some of this is safe to do, like, I'm 100 percent like you can't do over speed train with your eyes closed. Right? Right. But if you could, that would make the That doing stuff with your eyes closed I think could enhance a lot of variables in this because the brain goes Oh, this is not good.
Like the brain goes, I don't care you want to close your eyes But I got to survive right like
Dr Mike T Nelson: yeah, and then you probably said the overspeed training you're talking Single percents, right? You're not talking
Participant: one person. Yeah. Well, I'm just whatever 100 percent is Then I'm pulling them, I'm pulling them just a little one to 2 percent above it, but you know what,
Dr Mike T Nelson: barely over speed.
Participant: Yeah. Barely over speed. It's not 10%. No. But I, you know what, that, that brings a point. I think I'm going to go test as soon as the off season comes. Right. I'm in season now. I hate in season cause I can't do anything, but we're playing games and it's fun. Right. But the off season, I'm going to test like 80 percent effort.[00:21:00]
but have it pull them maybe over speed, but it's only 80 percent and see if I can get the same response. All right, I'm going to write that down so that we can test that, put that on the list, because I got a bunch of experiments to do this all season. So, all right. Hey guys, one more piggy tail or piggyback on that.
You guys do you said there'd be pretty big implications for rehab at Cal, probably on ACLs, I'm guessing? Cool. Well, look, yeah, I'm going to tell you, I haven't seen them not in all my return to place. Yes. I haven't had an ACL since I started doing those. Not because of that, I just, hockey doesn't have a whole lot, to be honest with you.
If they are, it's a contact, it's not, and we're blessed but yeah, no when I have a return to play, like even a big quad, contusion, and they have pain, it's, it still turns those slings on. [00:22:00] And I thought it turned the quad on, because they got a better response, but it's, the quad still wasn't responding very well, because of the absolute pain involved in that, you're talking about a 90 mile an hour, Puck that, that snip that the pad didn't cover and hit the quad.
So that, that hurt. And those hard, those are really hard rubber, right? So it's not like getting hit by a 90 mile baseball. This is worse. So anyway, but yeah, no, and I'll return to place when they can start to run. I would add it because it, and again, I will do it in the beginning of the rehab because I feel that all these things need to be turned on.
So that you're not ingraining bad rehab patterns. And that's what I'm telling, like, I'm going through physical therapy right now, and I just do some check ins with my PT but I'm trying to explain to her how the bad patterns right now exist, and I gotta clear them before I do some rehab. Because we need to get those, and I showed her, I walked in, I didn't do any RPR, I didn't do anything, and we did a couple sets, I said, now watch this, and I RPR'd and I got, and then the next exercise, I did it, And same effort, [00:23:00] same, and she's like, Oh, I see the difference.
And I'm like, because I think I just cleared the bad patterns. So anyway yeah, so like it has to be done before and before you start rehab, in my opinion,
Dr Mike T Nelson: a question on if it's been done with an aging population, the oldest person I've used it with is early sixties. Active guy. Again, seem to help. But the nice part is you can equate it to wherever they're at. So it's very easy to scale also, which makes it nice.
Participant: My one thought on that, Mike, and I assume you would agree with me is if your client, like, I think then if you had the water bag aging, you might want to get more than one rep in, like you could do it throughout the workout, three to
Dr Mike T Nelson: five times.
Participant: Yeah. And even while they're waiting, just walk or carry or skip this with this. Right. And then, but here's the problem. My, here's me. If they have the big soft shoes, I don't think it's going to work. No. You know how old people have those big soft shoes. Yes. Do you have a mic yet? No, I'm teasing.
I'm [00:24:00] teasing. Anyway. I know. No, I'm teasing. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe. Right. I wish you were older than me that could really get on you, but you're not. So anyway, but yeah, those big soft shoes of the client, like I think they have to, I don't think the soft shoe is actually going to turn it, help turn that on. So
Dr Mike T Nelson: no, I've seen those are probably the worst thing that in flip flops, like if you want to destroy gate patterns pretty fast, I don't know what you've seen Cal, but that's been my experience where those just, yeah.
Cause I had a couple of clients online and I was beating my head against the wall. I could not figure out what's going on. And finally, I'm like. Send me a picture of your shoes. And I'm like, holy crap, what the hell are those things? And I'm like, get rid of those. And as soon as they did, like everything cleaned up.
Participant: Well, the only thing that's touching the earth is our feet when we walk and there's all this feedback coming in. And when the feedback's bad, well, the other thing about flip flops is that. Instead of your yeah, the big toe, the toe actually can't grab the ground normal. [00:25:00] So your big toe is supposed to squeeze.
You actually keep that from squeezing and activating your glutes. And that big toe holds a flip flop on when you walk. So the only really good sandal possibly would be is one that has a heel strap. So your toe can still function. Am I right with that?
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, and if people do consulting like this is probably like the easiest thing to make all your money back instantly is Walk into a facility and if you see any athletes walking around in flip flops like just get them to change them out
Participant: Yeah.
And we're talking, I've had one of my athletes who had a great toe glute system, like glutes were monsters, but literally goes on vacation for a week, comes back and it's shut off. No. Even if I didn't do anything, would he had turned on? Most likely. Yeah, within a couple of days, but still just drop the flip flops, please.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, quick story. I had a client, had a bunch of pain, could not figure out what was different, went through everything. Finally, he's like, yeah, I started wearing flip flops. I'm like, okay, [00:26:00] don't wear them the next two days. He stopped wearing them, all his pain cleared up. He's like, I don't believe you. So he started wearing them again, literally within a day, all his pain showed up again.
I'm like, yep, I would not wear those.
Participant: And he was at his tipping point, right? It's crazy. Oh yeah, he would have
Dr Mike T Nelson: done everything else. And he, it's probably like his system was ready to make a change, but that was probably his main rate limiter too. So yeah,
cool. Who is next? You can do the little raise your hand thing. I think we should be able to see that.
I think maybe it's not working. Or Unmute yourself and talk or put a thing in the chat either way. I'm
Participant: gonna jump in again if nobody else is asking questions yeah. Do would you stack that with the goat drill? If you had like this five pounds, or five pounds of water or something like that, and stack it with the goat drill, or no, yay, no?
What do you think?
Dr Mike T Nelson: I'll give you my thoughts, and I'm [00:27:00] curious what Kyle thinks. So, what I did with a few athletes recently is, I had them start with RPR, I had them do two to five runs with the water bag, and then had them do two reps of the goat drill. I don't know what your thoughts are, Cal. And the downside is, I can't watch a lot of their gate patterns really good.
So my assumption is they're probably bad. Heh.
Participant: Duh! Right. Yeah. So what I'll do. So here's how my, my, my workout goes. Basically we walk in, we don't do a dynamic warmup. We do RPR. We walk over and here's how I paired them together. You're gonna like this. So I think this is in our, In our extra PDF, but the first rep of goat drill, the first rep of goat drill is done with the waterbed.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Nice.
Participant: So, so I killed two birds with one stone. So instead [00:28:00] of doing the goat drill and then running over and doing one more 10 meter sprint, I just had to do the goat drill. And the go drill doesn't have to be this complex. It can be a simple one, but just do the go drill with that on. And it turned everybody on.
So then, and then, so they RPR for three minutes, they do this two reps right here, it's 25 seconds, and then they go sprints. And again, like I mentioned in the book, I, and really, I just. I bargained with the kids. I was like, Hey, you want to do a 15 minute dynamic warmup or three minutes RPR and we'll go.
And they were like I'm out. Let's do the RPR coach. We're out. So anyway, but that's how I pair it. And you can be done anyway. I think my, I think I'd go RPR. Go drill. No, I actually, I'd probably do RPR water bag run and then go drill if you wanted to isolate things. Yes.
Dr Mike T Nelson: And FYI, if you do the go drill at lifetime, like I have been lately, you get a lot of interesting looks.
Participant: Yeah. And especially with [00:29:00] your older clients, right? If they can just do it walking. So, Oh, how about a quick story on the goat trail? I I have a friend, he's a professional golfer that I trained and I, he does the goat trail and he had some pretty crazy results over the last year with the goat trail and everything that we do in this system.
And he actually does. The workouts in the book. So we're doing ISOs in the off season in power, but then during the season, he'll do the speed workouts in the book that we do. So all those exercises, he has a hook complete. But he took his daughter and, she, she he let her pick a game with the remote or the a game that she could play with the remote and with the wireless one.
And as she was doing the game, she started doing the goat drill and she actually doubled her score 15 minutes later after doing the goat drill, why she was doing the goat drill than she'd ever got on her high. [00:30:00] She doubled her score and he sent me this to show and I got the video of her doing the game while she's doing a goat drill.
So like I told him like a parent, hey, just have your kids play video games and do the goat drill. If they're going to play video games, make them do 10 minutes of the goat drill, especially with that, like wireless remotes or the, what are the key thing? What are they called? The remote?
I don't know if they, what are the kids called? The things they. They're hitting while they're playing the game. I don't know
Dr Mike T Nelson: the game council and a little, yeah, the controller, yeah,
Participant: the wireless controller. Right. Yeah. So, so so yeah, like it, it was, he's like, yo, she'd been playing with her brothers trying to get better scores.
She started to go through. And while she was doing the goat drill the first time, her score doubled and she got her high. That's pretty interesting. Like, that's the definitive results. And then a quick one, I had another friend who, whose daughter just exploded around 8, 9 years old. Became more, [00:31:00] so clumsy compared to what she was.
She's growing so fast. Goat trail took care of that. I've had that happen multiple times.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, and that makes sense, right? You're just, a lot of times during those growth spurts, they're just trying to integrate all their senses and their proprioception is just all skewed from where they're at.
100%.
Participant: 100%. Yeah, so the go drill. Yeah, it's just something. It's just a brain drill, right? Yeah.
Dr Mike T Nelson: So we had a question from Trevor about does this work for all pain? My bias was just, I view pain as like the end of the spectrum in terms of it's closer to poor performance. I would still have new, the same things.
Just try to stay below whatever. Threshold that is that they have pain. So they you may have to modify a bunch of stuff because you don't want to keep creating pain the whole time they're doing a drill, but in my experience usually [00:32:00] You can change the velocity or change the speed or make it simple. And it seems to work for that.
Like, I don't really do a lot of completely different things for people that have pain and are not, they have pain. A lot of it is just more specific stuff, but it's the same principles. I don't know what your experience with that is, Kyle.
Participant: Yeah, if it's something they can manage, when I say manage, if they can like get a good breath and control their breathing and the, I find that we can.
And then if they can actually move fairly well but again, like if they're not moving well, then they're creating a a compensation pattern and, Mike and I have seen those things, compensation patterns have drove Mike and I crazy over. Right. Like, cause you just, and I started trying to track it and Mike's going to say, well, you're an idiot.
Cause it's never going to be the same. And it took me eight months to figure out there's no sequence for anybody here. The only pattern I've ever seen of compensation patterns that I can [00:33:00] almost guarantee you it's going to happen. Is if I see the parent of my athletes and I see the dad and he's compensating and I'm like, okay, now I know why that kid compensates, but like the same injury, other people compensate differently, but I'm guaranteeing you the dad and the son or the mom and the son or the daughter that will compensate someone in that family will probably compensate the same way and maybe not all the time, but
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah.
To Trevor's question Will this help reset the pain signal? In my bias, yes. So I think of it as just, while I'm not treating people's pain, I'm just trying to get them to move better. And pretty much every time they move better, their pain goes down. So whatever I can do to get them to move better, might be a go trill, I do a lot of RPR, do hands on stuff.
visual vestibular testing, that type of thing. Anything that results with them moving better, more range of motion, better muscle testing, that type of thing. [00:34:00] In virtually every case, their pain goes down. So, and then usually with that, when they're moving, it's easy to see the thing that's moving too much, but then you're going to look for the thing that's not moving enough.
So if an athlete's walking and their right arm is just lying across them in front of you. That's easy to see, but that may not be the thing to target. So I'd be looking at their left hip lack of extension, and that's probably where I would start in terms of a framework of trying to look at compensation.
Any thoughts on that, Cal?
Participant: Yeah. It's, yeah there's certain things that happen, but. Or like seem to be a pattern in Mike, it would be associated with, I feel like if it's a set thing, it's most likely associated with slings, right? Yeah. Yeah. The one you're just talking about, obviously but it's, do we know?
Like what it's just crazy what that sling and then there's variations that come off that [00:35:00] sling and maybe of problems, but I don't know why it happens. It doesn't, there's nobody that said this. I just, yeah, it's just a, it's a crap shoot sometimes which, you know which makes this thing whole.
It just makes us fun,
Dr Mike T Nelson: yeah. And if you even know which sling you're looking at, you don't know what part of that sling may be the issue. So I'll usually just start at an extremity and just I've worked my way up and through, and I've seen everything from all the way up into left jaw was affecting the right ankle, and their left big thumb was affecting their right big toe, and all sorts of stuff.
So they're not necessarily all proximal to each other either.
Participant: No. No, it's yeah, that's frustrating. But anyway, it keeps me interested. So,
Dr Mike T Nelson: yeah Let's see. So we'll go with a question here. Let's see, John What is Kyle's starting point with a new athlete joining the program midseason who has no previous experience of his methods?
Assuming that the athlete has no injuries. What would be the [00:36:00] checklist and First steps to start
Participant: in season is tough. Cause then they just get, they get brought in into
Dr Mike T Nelson: whatever you're doing.
Participant: Yeah. Right off season. Well, quick on the off season, we do a bunch of testing so then we can get the kid to buy in and understand like, Hey.
Look at how much better you got, right? Like from in this last month or just in three weeks when we retest them in season, you know what, like, I, I like just in the program, cause then I'm really watching every move they make to figure some things out. And then just cause I know how.
And I've worked with RPR years, I'll watch an exercise and I know what muscle might be off. So let's say I watch the right leg and I know that they're the slings that we just talked about, the lateral slings off. So I'll put the kid on the table and then I'll test the lateral sling. I'm like, Oh yeah, this looked like you were off.
And he's like. I'm weak there and I show him the other side and it's strong. So then I, now I got some buying and I'm like, all right, I'm going to fix it real quick. So I fixed it. I reshow [00:37:00] them. They test it. They're like, what'd you just do? And so, so like I get a lot of buy in on that with RPR and it's nobody's fault.
It's not like the program he came from was bad. Cause like my kids might be all RPR today right now. And they go out and play a whole scrimmage and come off and they're not going to be on. It's just, they took hits, they took bang, right? So, I'm not, just because somebody comes in my program, I assume nothing.
Look, the crazy thing about trainers and strength coaches is every time a strength coach goes into a new school, he says, Oh, the last program was horrible, right? Well, I walk after my kids play the postseason where we don't train as much the last two, three weeks, two weeks off, and they come back, they're horrible.
I'm like, who trained these kids? Right. But like, we just got to be aware that like people are people, if they haven't trained at the end of the season, my kids are bad too. They got so many things wrong with them that just appeared. Ah, what are you going to do? [00:38:00] Plus, we started training so they're sore, so things shut off.
You know what I mean? So, it's I just, it frustrates me when I hear people going, Oh man, it's just, this is like, this program, or you were in a bad program. Like, not really. You weren't really in a bad program. You know what I mean? So.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And do you think that's also because of the accumulated stress, and they've got, tests, and they've got an outside life, and they've got accumulation of how many reps and hits over the course of the season, and everything else that goes into it.
Participant: Yeah. 100%. Sometimes you're just limping into the end. You know what I mean? Yeah. Right. So yeah, hockey's a contact sport, right? So, it's hockey's different, a lot of skill, a lot of things going on there, but anyway, so yeah. I guess with the in season part, I think, and, I bring them in, I watch, so I assess them.
If you do testing. I don't know if I would, but it might, cause they're not going to be as good as they were are at the end of the next summer. So it might be a chance for you to get some more buy ins.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Cool. Who's [00:39:00] next? You can raise your hand or put a comment or just start talking.
Participant: I have a question about the classic triphasic loading chart that you have in the book. Yeah, go ahead. I'm coming in new at book two here. So, power lifter, I primarily work with power lifters. So I got two questions based on the chart. So what kind of, like, volumes and sets do you recommend for applying those percentages to?
And then in block three, when you're going between strength, power, and speed, is that just primarily the difference in foot position and width that you're expressing that in?
What are your thoughts on that, Cal? Mike, on the classic triphasic model, What, I guess what I'm not drawing that in my head right now. What was with the graph? Which one was that page 77 of the book where it said that, yeah, so the eccentric focus for two [00:40:00] weeks, 85, 90 and 80 percent to see isometrics.
And then the two weeks of the concentric strength, power and speed. Yeah. What kind of sets of volumes do you recommend for expressing that in, on the third block? Unlike after you go through the ISOs and it's the strength power speed. Yes. Okay. So it's more than just one rep total. Like, what do you recommend for that?
So a good rule of thumb, if you're trying to develop my quality and look I looked at this For numerous, I, I did tendos for a decade. watching. And no matter what load I was at, I realized quickly and I'm talking no load plyometric jumps accelerated from the ceiling. Then if I did more than three reps, no matter what, the speed started to deteriorate.
And that's what I found. And then, so let's say we're below 80 80 or below after three reps, the speed deteriorated. So then I just [00:41:00] stacked on more sets if I needed to get more repetitions, right? So to keep, so look when I feel that if it's a motor skill and it's not conditioning and everything else is a skill, so whether it's power, speed, strength, it's all skill.
I will not do more than triples in most cases, unless it's a super high speed thing and I can get like 12 reps and 80 in five seconds, but really, then you're looking at time. Right. So is it the triples with with a back squat or is it a squat jump? I still found, even if it's a light load of squat jump or unloaded three reps for your limit with big body movements.
Now the small stuff, they don't seem to slow down. So like, let's say it's an oscillatory shoulder. You can go five, seven seconds. They don't seem to slow down with bands, but the rule of thumb is three reps or less. So if you're above 80, though, I like doubles. For the 85 percent and then 90, I liked singles.
So with my throwers and we got really strong, we're talking like [00:42:00] no gear, maybe some belts we would at 90%, we always did singles or clusters of singles. So a triple. Rest 20, do it, or I'm sorry, a single rest 20, do it a single and maybe one more. And then I would just rest and we do that. So the guidelines on repetitions are that triple is my limit when I'm doing really high quality stuff, even in speed, like you might be able to squeeze four out, but never was the fifth one better than any of the other.
And unless they're brand new at the skill then what happens is maybe they're just learning the skill better. But in most of my advanced athletes, triples were best. And then even training younger athletes, triples were always best. And I just stack more triples or more sets on and reduce the rest because they're not working as hard.
So you can actually get a lot of work in. So, or maybe it's even a cluster. So you do a double or triple cluster, do a rep of three. Rest 30 seconds to another rep of three and I found that seemed to be pretty effective. So that's where I liked [00:43:00] Cluster Training and I got that from, the German German book.
Actually I should be able to search it. It was one that I think Charles Poliquin really liked this book because it seemed like, that a lot of stuff came out of that book. He sure, it was. I call it the East German Bible. I layered it to East German Bible by Let me just, one second.
This is actually a good book if you can find it.
Dr Mike T Nelson: I found a lot of Poliquin stuff was from a lot of the Russian Eastern block stuff early on before people even heard of it.
Participant: Yeah. So it's fitness and strength for all sports. Fitness I'll write this up theory and, oh, it's Hartman. And let me search that for everybody.
Because this is this talks about this is like the first book about cluster training. So I'm going to search it real quick. So you can, I [00:44:00] would recommend this book if you really want to get to the foundations and roots of some of this stuff. Okay, so then let's go back to after I go through the eccentric and ISOs.
What I do is I do my. testing with the pro performance optimizer. I run a 20 hour dash, which then tells me whether they need strength, speed, or power. So then would I recommend that for power lifting? Probably not, right? I'm still going to have to go above 80, right? Or doing a mix. Maybe it's high one day and load, right?
Maybe more of a conjugate model. But the point is that. You really then would, once you, so triphasic then let's say you're a powerlifter. You don't want to do triphasic. I would, most powerlifters have gained success when I corresponded with them or they told me what happened and some have set some world records.
I told them to do 12, 12 weeks out, do your triphasic. Whatever your peaking is, you want to do triphasic six weeks before that. So let's say you're planning for a meat, you peaks. Here's where I [00:45:00] start peaking to get to be ready. Six weeks later for meat day, you want to do triphasic six weeks before that started.
So you get through your eccentrics isos, get through a heavy cycle and then whatever your peaking method is, or you could shorten that six weeks that, that for the six weeks before your meat competition cycle, you could do eccentric and isos. And then do your competition peaking method, whatever that may be.
And people get pretty profound results there. Great, so that answers my question, especially for like that speed aspect. Just the one small secondary question to that. Yep. Is powerlifters, is it okay to add a little bit more, like to grind through some reps? Does you see that commonly in competition? In my opinion, I would do it at the end of the week, right?
Because if I grind through reps early, I found that I just didn't get to training for my athletes. And again, they're all speed based, but again but yet even with my throwers [00:46:00] who are strength based, we're talking some, I had a. Six foot three, 44 inch vertical, 300 kilos, six 60 back squat or raw.
60 plus foot shot putter and a 65 plus. And you're going like they, I was like. So what I'm saying is like, they got super strong, but if I grind it a little bit, I saved at the end of the week when we're tired and it really goes with the undulated model in first try phasing. Right? And what turned me what pushed me to that model.
I was just an experiment was because again, it goes back to beer and wing night on Thursdays. Right? So I'm training my baseball team and I had my high volume on Mondays and things were going okay, but they weren't great. My high volume grind some sets out on Monday. Right. And then I realized like, I'm just going to crush these guys because they go to beer and wing night or hungover when they come in on Friday, we're just going to do all the value.
Well, everything got a little bit [00:47:00] better then. So I just shifted everything. Right? So again, I, it wasn't scientific. I found it out. It was beer and wing night that caused me to shift the grinding the sets on Friday at the end of the week to be better. But it made more sense though, because everything in the beginning or the earlier in the week was was higher quality and look if you're trying to get better, stronger or speed, you have to do high quality and there's time to grind, but it's at the end of the week, in my opinion, Mike, I'm not sure what your thoughts are.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, what I've noticed is a handful of powerlifters I've worked with. I generally would agree just because of the higher amounts of fatigue. Some, there's a handful of lifters I've worked with where they can grind through reps all the time and they just show up. 24 48 hours later they're fine. I would say those are the exception.
Most of the time, like you were saying Kyle, I find that the quality of reps they can do after that just tanks. So I'm usually going to push that to later in the week. They've got probably Saturday and Sunday off, or it's just easy work on the weekend, and then Monday they're probably pretty good to go again.
So I just look at how [00:48:00] much volume it's costing me to get specific. And if I lose a lot of, Practice. I'm going to move it to a place where they have the most rest so that it doesn't decrease the quality of volume we can do.
Participant: And look I'm talking from drug free drug tested athletes.
Yeah. You know what I mean? So, so if you're on it, and I love heavy powerlifting. Like if the guy's doing drugs, I don't care. I just, I want to see him squat, a thousand pounds. That's great. You know what I mean? So I'm not judging at all. But the you just got to realize, like, I'm just telling you this from the drug free athletes.
Now, I'm not going to tell you they're not freaks. So, they're freaks. You know what I mean? Some of them are freaks.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Cool. Let's see. Debbie had a question. Can you give an example of an upper body high velocity potentiation clusters for swimmers? Or would you not use this method for upper body?
Participant: No I would. Really, it would be like bench throws. And then the hard part is always the back, [00:49:00] right? So I think I have a, I don't even know what to have. We've got it in my program every day, but it's my banded rows, right? So, so when I say that it's not, it's a super high velocity banded row. So you could do like bench throws, you can do the banded rows.
You could do med ball toss. And I still like the overhead cause it actually, or even the side lateral in, in my peaking in my speed program in the book, a lot of that is potentiation, in, when I say that, like it is potentiation, but it also is. It's such a high quality training system to teach the nervous system to relax.
And the TMG showed us that we actually just pulled out the TMG. We're going to do a project with it, Mike. Yeah. It's always fun to, see that the interns are learning. They go do an exercise, they come back and they analyze the muscles, see what it does. Right. So it's really fun. And just to get them excited about it.
It's pretty awesome. So, and then David found the book. [00:50:00] I actually pasted it too, but he found it. I didn't even look for it, paste it, but it's in the chat if you want that German book, but yeah, no. So, again, I think it's about the reactiveness and if it's something that's reactive, in my opinion, it's going to cause potentiation effect.
Dr Mike T Nelson: I think you had like a one arm pull down variation with that too, as one of the versions.
Participant: Yeah. 100%.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Cool. Next one from Mike. I work with a lot of cross country runners. What modifications would you make for the 5K and 8K running population? These are high school and college athletes. Any thoughts?
Participant: Well, where we've had success, um, is really like the I would say the spring ankle is one. Right. I think some crazy stuff there because just look, if their ankle has no weaknesses, then the stretch reflex is going to take [00:51:00] place more effectively. So that they return the load. So when I say that years ago, I saw, I wish I kept it.
I saw a study of a 5k runners of elite world class and the people that won the racer were world class. Compared to the team, the people that just fell off at the end, they realized that at 3000 meters, what separated everybody was that the hip was undulating. When they run the slower people undulated when they ran.
So, so the problem with the undulation is when you, if you run and your hip goes down too far, it's telling me that when the foot struck the ground, it didn't stretch anything. Right, so you don't get a free return of ligament energy because the people that were stiff when they hit the ground Their tendons were stretched and they got a free return of energy where the people that collapsed at 3, 000 meters [00:52:00] They actually had to use more muscular energy at the end to push to get so they were less economical In regards to their gait cycle.
So then if I'm doing cross country, I would not do deep squats. I know people do eccentric loading, isometric loading. And like a quarter squat position, cause that's where they're going to load. Now, I definitely would, I definitely would like do the prime times cause I've gotten a ton of feedback on that because the prime times are very important.
I think, and they're in the book. Right. And along with primetimes and the URI it's pretty crazy what the yeah what you get out of those it's, I'm not kidding you. It's pretty crazy. So those would be some things. Mike, anything else you think?
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, I just think that. The [00:53:00] biggest thing that I see in that population is training through poor movement patterns again because there's so much distance only based.
So I only work with a handful of, endurance athletes. That's not the primary population I work with. If I get a chance to work with them in person, all we do is just really basic sprint technique stuff. Not to the level probably Cal or Corphus do by any means, but just basic stuff. And then after that, just trying to teach them that once your mechanics break down, like, just stop.
Like, I'd rather have them walk at that point, track that distance, track your heart rate, and then If you can fix yourself with RPR and do a little bit more running, great, we can't, walk home or, whatever, sometimes you can, sometimes you can't, there's logistics to that. And then the other part is that RPR in the sprint position, so like we teach in level 2, so specific positional RPR.
can make a huge difference. So for athletes that have hit a plateau but tend to be breaking down at a certain point, I'll just put them [00:54:00] in that split stance or wherever the position they were in, just have them do the activations in that position and that seems to make a huge difference too.
Participant: Yeah I think a couple things too, I have I'll post this, I have that hypertrophy control method. So if you're going in the weight room and people are gaining weight, it's a really quick formula where you do cold tubs after you go through the weight room and then I add high dose fish oil. You can read the article.
I put it there. It's just a combination. I actually had some athletes do this summer. They want to put any more weight. We got them a lot more powerful, but ultimately the they were able to not gain weight. With that method there. So anyway just one thing. And then I think that triphasic, like one thing I wanted to mention too, like with pain and we talked about for the triphasic or the the, what I call a triple stack sniff, I believe it was.
Yeah. Yeah. So really, I the neural balance sync stack, I'll pay something about it [00:55:00] there, but yeah, like, I think if they're breathing can, they can work on their breathing, maybe not when they're running, but intervals and stuff and especially with RPR, but what we're finding now is that if an athlete's got some pain, if they touch it.
And they cause a little bit of pain and they do that neural balance sync stack where it's a triple sniff. They rattle their teeth a little bit. They breathe through their teeth. You hum and then they widen their vision while they hold on to the pain. It actually is helping them reduce that pain and it's really the brain going, Hey, the pain's okay.
I can calm myself down. It's just really get letting go. So I put that in the I put that in the chat. If you want to click on that link. So
Dr Mike T Nelson: yeah, and I'll say that in clients if their HRV baselines are really horrible and they have a lot of pain, my first thought is let's try to increase your HRV baseline over time because it may not be the source of their pain, but like you said, if you can get them to be more parasympathetic, you take that gain [00:56:00] knob on the pain and definitely turn it down.
Yeah.
Cool. Who's got another question? We've got a few minutes left.
Participant: Trevor here I'll, I figured out my microphone,
Dr Mike T Nelson: so,
Participant: Oh,
Dr Mike T Nelson: yay!
Participant: So just like, I just want to call out some of the things that you said, because they're just so cold. I know there's another couple of swim coaches in here, like the whole thing about if they're no longer running correctly, they should stop and reset.
Like I do that. I do that in swimming all the time with my head and they're like, no, let's crank through the yardage. And I'm like, no, you guys, you don't get it. So I just wanted to call that out. Like, I know there's a couple other swim coaches in here. Just like, well, I do that with my swimming. That's not just something that we should keep to track and field or strength and conditioning.
Right. Like, right. You're not going to Yeah. My thought is you can't have days you push through, and those are established days, but a majority are not. I don't think you can. Right. You'll get better results in my opinion. [00:57:00] Right? Yes. Yes. A hundred. But go ahead. I'm sorry. That's all. That's all.
Yeah, that's all. Just wanted make sure, I just wanted to make sure that's like a move, that's a principle of anatomy and physiology. Like if you do a thousand squats in a row, what's your form gonna be like at the end? Yeah. Right. So we get away from that in swimming. And like I said, I know there are some other swim coaches in here asking about swimming, so I wanted.
Say that out, out loud. Yeah, and I think, days where qua quality wins a majority of the time, right? You gotta do things fast, but there's times you have to in increase capacity. There's no doubt about that. So,
Dr Mike T Nelson: yeah, I like the eustress distress model. So tress EU stress, I like how was saying most of the time it's gonna be high quality work.
If your form starts breaking down, you're gonna stop before that, your goal is to be able to come back the next day and do it again and again. But you are going to have distress days, which are usually competition, your test days, where yeah, your mechanics are probably going to break down a little bit, but the [00:58:00] goal is to see where your performance is.
But usually I see that model is flipped. Like most people are doing, whether they're conscious or unconscious of it, too much distress work and that's costing them performance long term. But yeah, so both are useful. It's just how do you determine what to do with that. I guess most of my clients, it's 80 90 percent is EU stress.
The higher level they get to, we might do more simulation distress type work. But most of the time it's going to be more EU stress.
Cool. Anyone, last question from anyone?
Anybody?
Participant: Mike, I pasted a couple of things in there. We talked about like articles that weren't things that were going to grab them. Yeah, grab them. And then so everybody can see those and just some possibilities. But no, appreciate it.
Dr Mike T Nelson: Cool.
Participant: All right. Well, thank you all for showing up. [00:59:00] That was great.
Appreciate it. Yeah. We'll do one of these when we're drinking, like on a. Friday night, maybe or something. That'll be fun. There you go. Wings and beers. Yeah, wings and beers. It'll be great. It can go south. I had one go south. I try not to tell people about the podcast, but that was the intent. We all started drinking and we did it.
It's actually on Mike and Booker, that one. There was a second one on there. We had a blast. I just was like, I can't believe I said some of that. So anyway. So. Anyway, all right. Thank you for everyone for for being here. It was great. It's always great to do these. These are awesome
Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, awesome. Thank you guys.
Appreciate it. Have a great day. Thanks, buddy
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to this podcast or this call. Really appreciate it. Uh, big thanks to Coach Cal Dietz for all the wonderful information he was able to share. Uh, obviously we're biased since we are the authors of the Phasic Training two book, uh, 14, [01:00:00] all new Methods, which is out now.
It is all new stuff from the Phasic training, one book. And you do not necessarily have to have the phasic training one book. It is helpful if you do have it though. We do a very short review of the Phasic training principle. So you can get right into it with the second book. You do not necessarily need to have the first one, although it is very beneficial.
I'll put a link to the book here. Huge thanks to everyone who, uh, has bought it. All the wonderful reviews we've had. I think right now we're closing in on 120 reviews on Amazon, which has been, uh, amazing. So a huge thanks, uh, for that. Really appreciate it. A big thanks to Cal for all the great info here.
Big thanks to our sponsors, LM t check them out below. If you're looking for electrolytes, uh, Teton ketone esters, if you're looking for ketones to a little bit. Or to get you through the end of the day or your training or your endurance, [01:01:00] cardio aerobic training sessions. Uh, they're awesome for that. I've been able to use them a lot over the past couple years and it's been, uh, great use code, Dr.
Mike to save some money. Uh, also we've got a newsletter both myself. Uh, you can hop onto that and we've got a newsletter for the Phasic training two. If you go to phasic two.com, uh, you'll be able to purchase the book there and. You can also hop onto the newsletter completely free, uh, for lots more Great information there.
Thank you so much for listening to the podcast. As always really appreciate it. Got some great interviews coming up here, so stay tuned for that. If you do us a favor, leave us, uh, a like, subscribe, download reviews. Like we said, even if you just say a few words, that'd be great. Whatever stars you feel is appropriate.
All that stuff is a huge benefit, uh, to us to allow us to keep getting amazing guests. So thank you so much. [01:02:00] Appreciate it. Talk to all of you next week.
Speaker 3: Did you see that? Yes. The frog is certainly taking a beating on this show. Yeah. It's hard to feel sorry for him. We take a beating every show.
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