Welcome back to the Flex Diet Podcast with me, Dr. Mike T. Nelson. In this episode, I sit down with Mike Doehla, a fitness coach who retired early and now enjoys playing pickleball. We discuss what future trainers should focus on, the effects of communication, the importance of humanizing your brand, balancing personal tasks, and exploring the future of coaching with AI. Sponsors: Tecton Life Ketone drink! https://tectonlife.com/ DRMIKE to save 20% Dr. Mike's Fitness Insider Newsletter: Sign up for free at https://miketnelson.com/.
Welcome back to the Flex Diet Podcast with me, Dr. Mike T. Nelson. In this episode, I sit down with Mike Doehla, a fitness coach who retired early and now enjoys playing pickleball. We discuss what future trainers should focus on, the effects of communication, the importance of humanizing your brand, balancing personal tasks, and exploring the future of coaching with AI.
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[00:00:00] Dr Mike T Nelson: Welcome back to the Flex Diet Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Mike T. Nelson. On this podcast, we talk about all things to increase muscle performance, improve body composition, do all of it in a flexible framework without destroying your health in the process. Today, we've got a fun program with a guy I always enjoy talking to.
[00:00:26] It's Mike Dolia. We're talking about What should trainers focus on in the future? So this one is a little bit more focused on if you are a trainer or are a coach Mike is you're probably familiar sold stronger you so now he is just Hanging out retired early playing pickleball But we did talk about pickleball and pickleball community and competition Let me also transition to talking more about coaching and just the different effects of communication.
[00:01:03] What are the importance of humanizing your brand, embracing different imperfections in your business how to do the day to day things. What are some things you should do yourself? What are some other things maybe you should farm out and how do you balance all of that? And then towards the end, we talked a little bit about the future of coaching and how does artificial intelligence, AI, relate to all of that.
[00:01:34] Yeah, and I always enjoy talking to Mike always learn new things. He's always super open with sharing all the lessons and everything that he's learned. So he's learned by doing the work and putting in the work. The reps so it's always great to talk to him a podcast sponsor today is brought to you by Tecton If you're looking for an exogenous ketone drink check them out Like I said for the last couple ones we are still down here in South Padre, Texas Getting in some kiteboarding and each time we go out to the area, which is typically called the flats here there's a side where it's a little bit more of a bay on one side and then the ocean on the other side.
[00:02:19] So typically we're riding more in the area of the bay, they call the flats. So I always bring out some tecton out there, which has been super helpful. So check them out below. You can use the code Dr. Mike to save some money. As an FYI shout out, I am a scientific advisor to them and an affiliate. So there is your conflict of interest.
[00:02:44] So without further ado, enjoy this fun podcast all about more of the coaching side with Mike Doehla.
[00:02:55] Mike Doehla: How are you doing? I'm good. Just, I was just playing pickleball instead of working out.
[00:03:01] It's so much more fun.
[00:03:05] Dr Mike T Nelson: I heard you're like a huge pickleball convert now. I
[00:03:08] Mike Doehla: play all the time. But I'm like the youngest guy because I play during like retired guy hours.
[00:03:16] Dr Mike T Nelson: But you are a retired guy.
[00:03:17] Mike Doehla: Yeah, I know. But all my friends and all the younger people are at work when, or when they play at five o'clock when I'm on like dad duty.
[00:03:25] So,
[00:03:26] Dr Mike T Nelson: yeah. So how many pickleball shifts are you pulling now?
[00:03:30] Mike Doehla: Practice plus play maybe three to five times a week. Oh, okay. That's nice. Getting my steps in. So I'm skipping a lot of my daily walks because I'm walking around the court,
[00:03:40] Dr Mike T Nelson: nice. And what is the appeal with Pickleball? I just like making fun of it.
[00:03:45] I think it's great that people do it. But it's just so fun to make fun of.
[00:03:50] Mike Doehla: I used to make fun of it. Because I'm like, why don't you just play tennis and run more? Or do something else? It's intense. I haven't played many sports. that required faster hands than that. Like it's just super like bang.
[00:04:06] So like for me, it's what I was missing when I retired was like competition, community improvement, athleticism. So it's given me all those things that I was missing. And yes, I could have probably gotten them somewhere else. But for me, it was like, it's just like the perfect mix of it. So I'm really into it now.
[00:04:28] Dr Mike T Nelson: No, that's cool. I'm a huge fan of, people do some recreation, do something where you have to challenge your brain more, like obviously I do a lot of kite boarding, kite surfing, learn to surf, play tennis, play, even fuck, play pickleball, do something where your brain has to react in movement.
[00:04:46] Ideally, with your hands or your feet in a semi predictable environment. You know the ball is coming to you, but you don't know where and when. You can see the wave, and you know the wind, but it's not 100 percent predictable all the time, even in the same session.
[00:05:01] Mike Doehla: Yeah, I'm sorry if you hear a vacuum out there.
[00:05:04] Dr Mike T Nelson: That's all right. They just decided to maul in the grass outside right now. So
[00:05:08] Mike Doehla: yeah, man, it's it's been great. It's so much fun. I meet a bunch of people getting better at something. Like you said, I, I've been using my brain much more. Like I'm probably have watched more video than hours played.
[00:05:20] And just read up on it. So like I have I'm really learning a lot about the strategy and stuff. So it's been like very rewarding. It sounds super corny because it's like a funny sport, but it's the fastest growing sport in America. It's planted seeds in my head for Ooh, could I get into this in some sort of not a professional player.
[00:05:38] Obviously that's like a gift and talent that I probably could never get to, but like maybe getting a group of people and opening up a facility or something, or even coaching beginners, like I could probably get to that level. So I don't know, man, it's been fun for me.
[00:05:54] Dr Mike T Nelson: That's awesome. I also just like making fun of it because you watch, it's almost like the inverse, like you watch the elite of the elite playing pickleball.
[00:06:03] And they don't move. They just stand there like they're swatting mosquitoes or something. And then on one hand, it's. Incredible to watch the reaction. It's like high level table tennis. It's just like It's another universe, but it's so funny that like at the elite level. There's less movement, which I find just interesting
[00:06:22] Mike Doehla: Yeah, one of it's a colleague of ours.
[00:06:24] His name is marcus wolford he's a really good player, you know how they have like ratings and that's pickable He's a five point something. He's like I could play in sandals and a frying pan and be yeah Pretty good players. I'm like the maniac running around the court right now. So he's probably at a level as are like real professionals where they can predict where things are going.
[00:06:47] Like how exactly it's going to happen. So it's just the difference between like beginner and advanced that it's just like coaching stuff. It's you just don't know what you don't know. And maybe eventually you'll get there.
[00:07:00] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. It's I've often joked or made a comment that Elite NFL players who are aging, especially like at a wide receiver where it's pretty obvious to even people like myself watching the game, what's going on and what's not.
[00:07:15] They're actually getting slower, but a lot of times they can play for quite a while. NHL is the same way because their prediction and the mental side of the game, they have so many hundreds of thousands of reps of being in the right place at the right time that it looks like they're extremely much more athletic than what they are.
[00:07:36] And obviously they're extremely athletic. They're really good at what they do, but in comparison to the other freaks on the field, they're actually a little bit slower, but yet. And still play so well because of the prediction and knowing where to be all the time.
[00:07:48] Mike Doehla: Right. It's I should not lose to a, in any sport, to an 85 year old man.
[00:07:55] But in pickleball, it can happen. And people make fun of that athletic snobs. But I look at it as wow, that's amazing that this sport can span I played with a 15 year old yesterday. Dude was, and his father, they were awesome. And I could play with 85 year olds. And if they're good, like these games are competitive, so it's not limited to this you go play basketball, like 85 year olds are not hanging with someone.
[00:08:21] Yeah. . But these sports like, so it just has this vast community of all different types of people and it's just. So damn cool,
[00:08:29] Dr Mike T Nelson: yeah, no, that's awesome as much as I rip on it I do actually like that people five a client right now who's just super into pickleball, which is great And so we're actually he's right at the transition where he's trying to figure out how much time does he want to spend?
[00:08:45] Doing it but he's a little bit older and so we're trying to figure out what movement things we can, you know Pick up and I'm like, Hey man, if you want to play more pickable, that's great. We'll do your program however you want. That's awesome. It's Oh, it's just so much fun. And it's a similar thing, like kiteboarding.
[00:08:59] If you're 20 feet up in the air, trying to land a jump, like you're not thinking about, Oh, did I forget to take the trash out? Some guys like trying to take your head off. Like you, you just reacting and doing, I think a lot of people, that's the only way they can get any sort of mental solace, is to put them in a high.
[00:09:18] stress environment. And then hopefully later you can cultivate that in other areas.
[00:09:22] Mike Doehla: So you nailed it apart. One of the most important parts I forgot to mention was the flow state since like selling the company and hanging up my coaching shoes. Like I haven't had many situations where I'm just completely locked in, but in pickleball or any of these sports, you're just completely immersed in what's happening.
[00:09:42] Like the mindfulness you need and the disconnection from anything else. Is incredible to experience. And I was like, wow, man, I really missed that. So like with you, with kiteboarding man, I'm sure you're just like, okay, I can't think of other things because I'm going to, I don't know what
[00:09:59] Dr Mike T Nelson: happens
[00:10:01] Mike Doehla: float away, but they do it in Bermuda.
[00:10:04] So you want to go, you say the word.
[00:10:07] Dr Mike T Nelson: All right. Yeah. Let me know. Careful. What do you wish for?
[00:10:09] Mike Doehla: I'm telling you, man, you can go whenever you want.
[00:10:14] Dr Mike T Nelson: We did that with a friend who invited us to his wedding in Australia after a night of drinking. And so we're on the plane going to his wedding. Shout out to Luke Leeman and Zoe.
[00:10:24] And my wife, I made the joke, joking. I said, Oh, I'm pretty sure Luke invited us this wedding, but he didn't have like several glasses of wine beforehand. And she was like, why we're flying halfway around the world to go to a wedding. We may not be invited. And they were totally fine with it, but yeah.
[00:10:41] Mike Doehla: They'll figure where to put you.
[00:10:43] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Awesome. Well, today's formal conversation for about the next 45 minutes here is that what skills do you think coaches now need, especially now and going into the future is the topic of conversation. So I would start it off with just basically that question and we'll go wherever it goes from there.
[00:11:05] Mike Doehla: Yes, flexibility is such a big one. I think knowing what you know. And how that can help someone or harm them is extremely important to remember. Because I think a lot of coaches, like they have their ideals. I think even when I first started, I was very like, people need to follow these numbers and if they do it, they're going to be fine.
[00:11:25] Oh, you can't do it. Yes, you can. Here's how to do it. And I think Try
[00:11:28] Dr Mike T Nelson: harder. Come on, try harder. Yeah.
[00:11:30] Mike Doehla: And for the there's that delicate balance, I think, between drill sergeant coach and cheerleader coach. I think the drill sergeant, that's just do it. is wrong. I think the cheerleader that's Hey, it's okay.
[00:11:41] Pick yourself up and do better tomorrow. That's also wrong. So I think that middle, the flexibility between the two is so important. I'm such a customer service nerd. I think in general, not picking on coaches or industry. I think in general, people just really suck at service. And it's like the most basic things.
[00:12:00] It's like getting back to people quickly which is their definition of quickly or within your
[00:12:06] Dr Mike T Nelson: boundaries of what you said you would do.
[00:12:08] Mike Doehla: Yeah. Not necessarily your ideals as a coach of what you think is good because especially when I first got into the field, I had coaches. And I was like, man, they're so slow.
[00:12:20] And it was like 24 to 48 hours. And I'm like, that's, maybe that's okay for me, but maybe someone who's like about to bury their face in a bunch of cookies or something might want a quicker response. And I'm not saying coaches have to, live with their cell phone in their hand, like I did in the early days, because that's probably not healthy or necessary.
[00:12:40] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. Cause I remember you back then. It was like an extension of your hand. I was like, dude, you're crazy.
[00:12:45] Mike Doehla: I was crazy. And I think that's like a lot of the story was like, I was a lunatic and this is all I wanted to do and all I cared about and I was just locked in, but that's not good for balance. So, but I think coaches need to identify the boundaries that they think they need versus what they want and what the customer needs and wants.
[00:13:05] I believe a lot of coaches build coaching businesses. With the belief that I'm going to build the business that I want, not build the business that the customer needs. And that's it's hard because a lot of us get into the field because we're into this stuff. And we like to do it. And we can't understand that.
[00:13:24] People are impatient with our responses or they have challenges that we never had because like we're into this and it's an interest like if I play pickleball and I say to someone off the street, I'm like, hey, you should really like this sport. They're going to say, well, I just don't like it.
[00:13:40] And coaches are like, well, you should lifting weights. You should like eating chicken and vegetables. You should going to sleep after an extremely stressful day when you had no time to yourself, that's one of the big things now is like sleep. Sleep. Yes. We all know, right? We knew since we were little children, that sleep is so important.
[00:13:58] But when a coach says, I don't care, go to sleep, which, not the literal words, but that's what they say. It's this person just had an extremely stressful day, they hate their job, maybe their relationships aren't that great. They want two hours to themselves at the end of the night, not to just go to sleep and hit the reset button.
[00:14:17] So I think we just, coaches just need to be more understanding with all this stuff and more flexible and, I guess adaptable with their own boundaries and what the clients need. Because, If you're not going to do this stuff, someone else will. And that was the company that I built and sold stronger.
[00:14:32] You is people were like, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do this. And I'm like, okay, we'll do it for less money than you will. And we'll help 50, 000 people and explode and have a hundred coaches on staff that, that will do this stuff. So. I think coaches in general need to up their game because if they're not going to, someone else will help these people.
[00:14:52] And it could be templates and apps and AI in the future. And, people say the industry isn't saturated, but I think it is to a point. But the good thing is a lot of those coaches that are saturating the market are mediocre in both skill and service. So all you have to do is Really give a crap about these people, respond quickly, and have the answers, and it doesn't have to be immediate.
[00:15:23] Coaches think they need an answer for every single question ever. It's maybe you have colleagues, we're colleagues. Hey Mike, I got this situation. What, you got any suggestions? Like I put myself out there for coaches. You have a question. I had
[00:15:34] Dr Mike T Nelson: two of those on my telephone this morning, which is totally fine.
[00:15:37] Just people I know. So that's cool.
[00:15:39] Mike Doehla: Yep. Hang on client or Hey, I'm going to look into this. I'll be right back. Yeah, we have, I have a hundred people that I could just reach out to. And that's that. So, I don't know. I ranted a while there. Hopefully I gave you something good.
[00:15:52] Dr Mike T Nelson: No, I think that's good.
[00:15:53] And I would add some color and say that my interpretation of that is not that you have to be a psychopath and live on your phone and get back to people within 30 seconds. However, You have to be extremely clear of here is the expectation. Here is the boundary. Here is what I, at the start of the agreement, here is exactly how I work.
[00:16:16] And here's what it is. So I had a business coach for a while, but I was paying like three grand a month. He would get back to me in 24 to 48 hours. And that was the expectation. If it was longer than that, like his assistant would, email me and say, Hey, he's working on this. He'll get back to you or whatever.
[00:16:35] Cool. That was fine. It wasn't. A big deal because he told me that is the expectation when we started. And that was one of the mistakes I made early on is I didn't tell clients what the expectation was. I thought that. If I just get back to people all the time faster, that would be better. And I think in general, yes.
[00:16:57] The caveat is I hosed up so many of those conversations that I became like their teddy bear and their blanket, and they couldn't go to target without texting me and calling me to figure out what fish oil to buy, and so I then switched it and said, okay, here's the deal. I'll get back to you in 24 to 48 hours, primarily by email.
[00:17:18] I don't promise my cell phone to anyone. And then if I feel like the person is going to be responsible, I'll be like, Hey, sometimes I do drop off the face of the planet and I'm traveling. Here's my private cell phone. It goes directly to me. I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Yes, I do have my phone turned off at certain times, but if I drop an email, I don't get back to you, please let me know.
[00:17:41] It's not intentional. It's over. That's worked. Pretty good. Cause now I feel okay, I have a little bit of space. I don't have to live on email. If somebody needs it urgent, they can text me if they have my cell phone number, but I'm not promising that I'm going to get back to them instantly. Either.
[00:17:56] I think a lot of it goes back to just deliver on what the agreement of service you're doing and be super clear about. What it is you're going to deliver and then obviously follow it up and do it
[00:18:09] Mike Doehla: And don't over deliver if you can't or don't over promise if you can't maintain that because people get very
[00:18:16] Dr Mike T Nelson: used to That's how I got burned initially.
[00:18:18] I would drop off for one or two days and they were like
[00:18:20] Mike Doehla: What's going on? This service sucks It's like money. If you give someone a 5, 000 raise and then a couple months later, you're like, Hey, I have to give you a little bit less. They're like, what are you talking about? So don't give extra if you can't maintain it.
[00:18:38] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. On this topic of communication, do you think there is space to do communication, at least in online training in different ways? Because it, it feels like some people I talk to our new coaches feel like, well, I have to do video calls. I have to do weekly calls. I have to give everyone my private cell phone number.
[00:19:01] Oh, email. That's not personal enough. I need to do an audio note. I need a video note. Again, on my thought is it goes back to what are you promising to deliver again? And there's no right or wrong as long as you're clear on what you're going to do.
[00:19:16] Mike Doehla: Yeah, I agree with that. I think there's, it all depends where you are in your career.
[00:19:22] Are you starting out? Who is your customer? Are they like. Super emotional struggling eaters. Yeah, maybe you want to give them a cell phone because you really love that connection If it's like hardcore training, bro, like you could probably do email. They probably don't need a hour long video call every week and I talked to Andy Morgan about this a while back.
[00:19:43] Yeah. He mentioned how I think he was trying to do video calls with some people and he works with a lot of like high level entrepreneurs and stuff. And he's these guys just, they don't have the time to do a 30 hour long chat every week. And I think that for even most coaches of general population, people who do struggle, I don't know if they need 30 minutes or an hour long call either.
[00:20:06] And I don't think that many coaches can build a successful business. With offering that much time to each individual because How do you work it in? How do you scale something like that? When I say scale, like I don't mean like we did hire a bunch of coaches. Like, how can you have 30 clients if you're doing a half hour, an hour long call every day or every week?
[00:20:30] So I think you have to know who your customer is, who you're trying to serve. You can have different packages, different pricing and things like that. I'm a fan of, if you're starting out, You have no clients. You want to make something of yourself in this industry. You probably have to do a lot more and offer more than you think.
[00:20:47] Yeah, that doesn't mean the calls though. There's so you could get so much good quality communication with text messages and Andrew Coates style voice message.
[00:20:58] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, I do a lot of voice messaging.
[00:21:01] Mike Doehla: Yeah, or like a quick 30 second video like this. And if you're trying to help them, you don't have to do all these videos.
[00:21:07] So we had. Some of our coaches like to do videos. Some of them just did email and there was no differentiation in results or customer satisfaction. So take it for what you will listeners. You don't have to like more isn't necessarily better, clear communication and connection can be made outside of a.
[00:21:30] Long call or a video response. You can type words, you can do a voice memo, and you can be completely fine. And I think one of the problems is no one really knows if their customers are happy with their service because they never ask. So there's a simple way to do it. We used to do these surveys called Start, stop, continue.
[00:21:51] And I, there was a website where you could do it. I don't know if it exists anymore. You can make a Google form. What should I start doing? What should I stop doing? What should I continue doing? And you can send it to all your people. You're probably gonna get some, and do it anonymously, and make sure they know that.
[00:22:10] You might get some hurtful stuff. Like I was told I need to go to the allergist because I sniffle too much on my live videos. That was funny. I was told I need to go on less vacations. These vacations were posted on my personal page. So people were upset that I posted pictures of a beach or a European city here and there, but most of the information was really helpful.
[00:22:32] It was like, okay, they're reinforcing my belief that I need to be present in my community constantly. I need to work on maybe my tone, right? Maybe I was like a little bit quicker, right? I wasn't using all the skills I learned in what's the book how to win friends and influence people using names and this and that, and typing all this extra stuff.
[00:22:52] Like validating feelings. Like I wasn't always good at that. I would just get to the answer. Here's the answer. Boom. So like you get this information and you're like, all right, cool. Now I know what I'm good at. Now I know what I need to work on. And I think if you don't do surveys, the only evidence you have is retention and referrals.
[00:23:13] And that stuff is not always easy to measure. Not all these coaches. And I know we didn't for the longest time have good tools to measure the actual data. Which was funny because we liked data with people with their eating, but we didn't have data as a business, which was okay. We got away with it, but if I could do it again, I would probably have much more, precise numbers in these aspects.
[00:23:38] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, I love the survey part. That's great, man. It is a little tricky when you're doing one on one because People may figure out who it is. And some people want to give their name and some people don't. So in our business, we'll have Jodi try to call them because she'll be able to get more information out of them.
[00:23:57] And this is, voluntary. They give their name and everything like that. Then if I just talk to them, which is funny because. They all know she's going to tell me everything that went on in the call, but there's something about having to be somebody different. And she's just a lot better at that.
[00:24:11] Mike Doehla: Like we had a customer experience department, like we, so coaches didn't like this. Like I'll be straight up. Our coaches hated this stuff when. A client would complain and say, Hey, I, my coach is doing this. I don't really want to work with them. I don't want to work with someone else. And they're like, that's not fair.
[00:24:31] We shouldn't let them move coaches. I'm like, do you know, if you were not in a system with a bunch of different coaches, do you know where these people would be going? They would be going to different companies, but within our umbrella, they are staying here. So when they refer people, you may work with those people because for whatever reason, this person isn't a good fit.
[00:24:52] And one thing I want to add about these surveys is I always claim I never did marketing But I always had these like tactics in my head where give me surveys everybody and we would have thousands You know, maybe all you need is 10. Maybe you use this as marketing. Look how happy our people are everybody Look at how everybody's results are.
[00:25:14] Look, we changed their relationship with food, where all these people are saying that people who track food are not improving their relationship. I have the data to prove otherwise. These people are not lying to us. So, here everybody, here's the story. If you're considering working with us, I'm gonna make it easy for you because all this information about how awesome we're doing is not coming from my mouth.
[00:25:38] It's coming from real customers who are just like you. So I think today in today's day and age, all these businesses have all these high paid people trying to figure out brand and how to sell it and how to use the perfect words, even words that you're not allowed to say and words you are allowed to say.
[00:25:57] And I'm like, I don't care about any of that crap. Show me happy customers and I'm going to help them or facilitate them into spreading the message that we're awesome and everybody should be here. Because nobody trusts businesses, they trust customers that are just like them.
[00:26:15] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah and I think a part I would add too is the human element to it.
[00:26:20] That it's a real person, it's a real coach like you. So my new thing that bugs me is. Someone will send me some website for like a new business. It's a pretty small business, like a, whatever size. And it bugs me to no end if I can't see any live humans on the website. I just get really suspicious of they may sound good.
[00:26:42] They may have the best ad copy. It may be professionally done. It has all the, widgets, but I'm like. I can't see like an actual human on the site. I'm like, what the I just get this impression that it's scammy and slimy and
[00:26:56] Mike Doehla: you know what else to in addition to that is people have no problem bad mouthing businesses.
[00:27:04] But they do have a problem badmouthing people. So if your brand or your company is humanized like stronger, you always was. It was like Mike was synonymous with the company. If they're going to badmouth the company, they were badmouthing me and the staff and they just never really did that.
[00:27:20] Because part of it was we're humans here. We're not just some company. So just another reason to humanize your brand.
[00:27:29] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And I think people will give you a lot more grace if they truly believe that you may be doing everything wrong, but if they believe you have the best intent of trying to do it, even though they're not getting the result they paid for, I think you can work your way through that aspect.
[00:27:49] Mike Doehla: Yep. And one thing we'll probably add to that, to add to that off each other forever, which is super helpful, I think, is people don't, it's, they just, the customers that we're working with, they just want the human connection in these cases. And when we're not giving them that, we're just showing them this like polished business that doesn't look like it needs any help.
[00:28:18] It looks perfect. But we know it's not. I think it's a fault. I think too many of our colleagues are like, I'm so polished, I'm the best, sign up with me because I'm not going to be vulnerable and tell you I need help. And for us, it was like, we had such a early on such a crappy website. We had a crappy little spreadsheet.
[00:28:37] Maybe we were a little disorganized with some of our processes, but people didn't care. They were happy. And I let them know I'm just some dude that went to community college who got nutrition certifications, who wanted to quit my job and help people eat better because I hated what the industry was doing to them.
[00:28:54] And people were like, yeah hooray. Let's help this guy and his team out. So I think if you're a new coach, even existing coach. Like you don't have to seem like you're perfect if you're not, because people don't care to help what's already super successful. They want to help the mom and pop shop.
[00:29:14] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And I think for new trainers, like you can. I don't want to say play up the angle, but you can put out what are your pros and what are your cons. So one thing I've gotten better at over the years is, yeah, if you want to know like the infinite details about supplements and all this other weird shit I spent 20 years learning, then I'm probably helpful.
[00:29:35] If you want the best. Humanize customer experience with disordered eating and really slick marketing, like I'm not your person at all. And that's okay. Right? Like most of my clients are trainers. Most of them like coffee and loud music and similar things that I do, which is done on purpose and not all of them do that, but I just see too many.
[00:30:04] People in the industry trying to be something that they're clearly not. And I get why, like they've been sold this bill of goods that, oh, you have to do this or use this marketing thing or put this on Instagram or, but I think the longer they keep. doing that it feels very disingenuous and people can tell that immediately
[00:30:24] Mike Doehla: oh yeah immediately it's if i'm you know 165 pound dude talking about how to get super jacked in bodybuilding like you probably shouldn't listen to me yeah but if you're You know, an everyday person who can't figure out why they can't lose a little bit of weight.
[00:30:41] Oh my God, food detective, I will crack the case. I will show you everything I've ever learned, helping all these people and maintaining like a relatively lean, fit physique heart without hardly trying because I have all these tactics. Like that's what I would always help with. And my best friend who was our COO, He was like, I think the success of this company was because you weren't some super jacked, intimidating dude.
[00:31:09] And I was like, yeah, I'm like a regular fit dude that, that figured it out and can help people. So you're right. But I think maybe you have to, you might have to work with people that you don't necessarily want to work with if you're not that type,
[00:31:26] Dr Mike T Nelson: how do you think stay relatable as people change to become more successful?
[00:31:31] So one of the things I think about is, so for example, like Joe Rogan Most people don't have a life that's remotely close to what Joe Rogan does. They're not UFC commentating and they're not doing comedy. They're not doing the number one podcast. They're not making millions of dollars per year. None of those are knock against him at all, but he has this way of appearing, which I, everyone I know who knows him agrees that he's just a relatable everyday dude, who's just super inquisitive, which he is.
[00:32:00] And so to me, it's just. It's fascinating how And I don't think it's a stick. I don't think it's something he's trying to do Intentionally, but I just look at these kind of outlier cases or even celebrities or professional athletes Some of them like the rock they just appear much more relatable even though Nobody looks like that.
[00:32:22] No one's that big. No one's done professional wrestling and started movies and started their own tequila line. And God knows the 800 other things he's done. Does that make any sense?
[00:32:31] Mike Doehla: Yeah. And it's something I always think about. And I think one of the things, in my case, we, we created one of America's fastest growing companies not just in the industry, like in the country, we sold the company and I retired at 40 years old.
[00:32:49] These stories are out there. I'm sure there's people that hear it and Oh, he's probably a jerk because that's what you hear about, right? These situations happen and they turn you into
[00:32:56] Dr Mike T Nelson: such a dickhead.
[00:32:57] Mike Doehla: Yeah. Right. And I'm sure someone thinks that, which is totally fine. But I like to think that these situations reveal who you truly are.
[00:33:05] They don't turn you into something, but I think it also takes being very mindful about it. Understanding why you want to live a certain way, because it's very easy. I'm sure Joe Rogan or. I'm not on that level in any way. But I could do a lot of crazy things that I just don't do because they're extremely pointless to, to do.
[00:33:24] And I think that's one of the weird things about these situations is You realize what's important if anybody watched my life They would be like that dude lives the most boring life on the planet Like my day to day is like my wife and I we get the kids up We feed them we hang out we maybe work out we play pickleball We maybe put on a movie we cook dinner and then we watch TV and oh yeah We'll take trips and stuff like that, but it's not this Life.
[00:33:52] So I think you're relatable because you're doing the same things. Most people are doing. You're unrelatable if, and this is one thing I always struggle with because I think, I have a non compete. So I can't work in the industry for another, I don't know. I always joke. I know the exact number of days, like 600 something days, right?
[00:34:12] June 1st, 2026. That includes like formal consulting, but I think about damn if I were to become one of these gurus Put on my whole shtick and brand myself as this dude that built this business and did this stuff I could probably crush it, but that's me putting on an act Just to make money that I probably don't really care that much about at that point.
[00:34:36] So I would rather be who I am. The dude that admittedly didn't know what the hell he was doing when he started. So that's relatable because so many people in our industry are very similar though. They're like, I don't like my job. I like fitness. How can I work in this industry? And those are the people I like to talk to.
[00:34:54] But I also like to talk to some of the bigger names in the industry who have done things because, I have probably seen things that they maybe have not seen or can offer different perspectives. So I don't know. I might play it down a little bit because I'm trying to be more humble about it because I don't think anybody likes I see some of these people and I'm like, I hate them because they're just bragging but giving advice.
[00:35:20] As the disguise to brag. So yeah, I struggle with it a little bit, because I don't want to be looked at as a braggy jerk. But I think, if I do talk about this story a little more, it could be helpful for everyone. But I don't know, I don't know the balance there. I have a tough time with it.
[00:35:39] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah, I don't think that's a key point though. Reveals who you actually are. Cause the other example I think of is, John Brardy, most people know sold precision nutrition for a fair amount of money, which is public knowledge and yeah, just, coaches does some track stuff, hangs out with his family.
[00:35:54] Like they didn't move to multimillion dollar house. Like he's not really working per se, my little air quotes, but he's doing all the things that. He wants to do and it looks pretty similar to what he was doing before, it's oh cool,
[00:36:08] Mike Doehla: yeah, it doesn't change that much and I think a lot of the like i'm in some of these communities where people like Retire early or they aspire to retire early with a good chuck and change And they think it's going to be this lifestyle that just is so unrealistic.
[00:36:22] Like we were talking before when I play pickleball, like I'm usually the youngest person because the hours I can play are like typical retired people hours. So like everyone wants this story, but it's, it is lonely because everyone you're cool with is at work. So I'm like, cool. I get to hang out with my wife and kids.
[00:36:44] And I could talk to my buddies online and all this stuff, but like in terms of community, like when I sold my company and I left oof, like it's gone. And that's a part I'm sure Berardi might feel that too, which is why you get in this situation and you have to find that. And that's one of the coolest things about the fitness industry and why I still stay like close with everybody is it's such a cool community.
[00:37:08] And that's one of the benefits of working in it and doing well is. You meet so many awesome people, not just your customers, but your colleagues. And we go to these conferences and we hang out, like we're all best buddies and oh yeah, so much like it's so cool.
[00:37:25] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And I think that's, what's fun too.
[00:37:26] And for myself, I realized that. So I'm probably never going to like formally retire. You know what I mean? Cause initially I started working in the med tech industry. I thought, okay, I hit 65, I'm gonna have enough money saved. And then you realize life events happen, different things.
[00:37:44] You're like, Oh my God. Well, a lot of the things I want to do now, what if I can't do them at 65? So am I going to put off. Everything for this magical date. And that's when I really figured out, well, if I do my own business, I can design my lifestyle haul. I want if it goes good great if it goes up in flames Well, that's that's on me too But I wanted the ability to trade time and money because if you work for anyone else Those two are generally pretty fixed and I would much rather have the volatility of Income going up and down at least feeling like I have some autonomy over it and then consequently Hopefully, as you get older, you have more leverage, you have more time in the business, you accumulate more skills.
[00:38:29] You can then increase the amount of money you're exchanging for time. And like you said, you can decide, well, how much do you really need? What do you want to do? Or I felt if I was working for a company, a lot of those things are fixed and I'm just putting pause on a lot of things other than my two to six weeks of vacation until I'm like 65.
[00:38:50] Mike Doehla: And I used to tell people, like when I was like knee deep in the business, like every day is Saturday. I just have a lot of things to do, , but
[00:38:58] Dr Mike T Nelson: I'd
[00:38:58] Mike Doehla: love
[00:38:59] Dr Mike T Nelson: do things. That's a good way of looking at it. Yeah.
[00:39:01] Mike Doehla: Every day was Saturday I swear to God, I used to forget what day it was sometimes, and I, I do now, but like when I was working I would be like, is it Thursday?
[00:39:09] Okay, because it didn't matter. I was still going into my phone and I still had I was a lunatic about it all, but I still traveled. I still did all these things. I didn't, I wasn't like absent from life, but I just had, work was on a cell phone. And that's what a cool career that we can have with this technology and these skillsets we developed that.
[00:39:31] We could talk to people doesn't matter if we're across the globe that's, you're it's hard to turn it off, but there's a cost to doing business, right? If you want to make a decent living and work when you want and help people you're probably going to think about it a lot.
[00:39:47] Dr Mike T Nelson: Oh, yeah. And even if you're not working on it, you're still Thinking about it because for a while I went through this period where, okay, how do I separate more of my work from my life? And I think to some degree you need that. But then, like you said, we go to conferences. We went to a business for unicorns this past weekend with Mark Fisher and everybody there.
[00:40:05] And it was amazing. It was super fun. I'm like, okay, is this fun? Is this business got to see Tony and Lisa got to see their gym. Oh, it's awesome. Beautiful place. Yeah. So cool. And I'm like, At some point I realized it's just life. And yes, I, I do hose up and I'm probably, been working a little bit too much lately on some deadlines and everything else.
[00:40:29] And there was costs definitely associated with that. But on the flip side, it's, I think there's an illusion of balance that you're never going to get. And it's always going to be an active process. And I am working on having periods of time where I'm not working nearly as much, Bye. I know that's going to be after that, then there's going to be a time where you're going to be working more.
[00:40:56] It's just what you do. And I'm like, if we still get to do the things we want, I still get to train. I still get to hang out with friends compared to what I was doing before in a fixed job working 48, eight hours a week, as hard and difficult as this is at times. Oh, I was telling my wife the other day, I think.
[00:41:14] I think being an Uber driver on my list of if all the shit hits the fan of six different things go, seven ways south till Sunday. I think being an Uber driver is higher on my list and going back and work in the med tech space, even though I could probably walk in and start at, 100, 000 just because I've experienced there, two advanced degrees, et cetera.
[00:41:35] I just, I don't want to go back to that lifestyle. There's,
[00:41:39] Mike Doehla: I joke I think I think I'm very like financially savvy. But I also feel like I have this built in defense mechanism to not buy a bunch of stupid stuff because I don't want to blow it and have to get a regular job again.
[00:41:52] Because yeah, it what a blessing it is to get out of that. And to think that Most humans have to wake up and do something they don't want to do all day for basically the vast majority
[00:42:03] Dr Mike T Nelson: of people.
[00:42:04] Mike Doehla: And I know it has to happen for the world to operate how it does. So we're very fortunate to work in fields that we love.
[00:42:11] Totally. But the thought of Leaving every day to go somewhere and do something that I don't want to do. And I think when you taste the other side, there's no way you can have that again. We're both psychologically unemployable.
[00:42:26] Dr Mike T Nelson: Oh, I would be a horrible employee. Could I do it? Yes. Could I be a monster pain in the ass real fast?
[00:42:33] Oh yeah.
[00:42:34] Mike Doehla: And that's probably like when I sold the company and I was working for the buying company, like I was an employee, I was getting direction from people that I was like I'd rather do it a different way. And it's you're, you now have to. You have to adapt to the corporate lifestyle and it was like I was the corporate lifestyle which was Not my definition of professional It was what we had to do and like you got to put on you got to play office politics and stuff like that Like when I owned the company it was like you can just flip like mike and I my coo We'd be in coffee shops and be like, hey, you want to do this?
[00:43:07] Okay. Sounds good. Let's do it That was a three week and four presentation and 15 meeting situation when you're in a big corporation. So I'm like, ah, it's not for me. Yeah. I'm broken, man. I'm sure it's
[00:43:20] Dr Mike T Nelson: Oh yeah. And it's good. At some point you realize you're so broken. So like the amount of ideas I have now and backups to the backup.
[00:43:28] So I never hopefully have to go back to that position. It's, it gets crazy. Cause there's also this, I don't know if this fear ever goes away. That Oh my God, all this stuff's going to happen. And there's another pandemic or there's this fear of this big thing looming at some point. So it feels having all the backups are just like your own little safety net.
[00:43:51] Mike Doehla: Yeah. But without right. If we're, if you're talking like anxiety, it's we all know from an evolutionary perspective, like it's a helpful thing at times. And I had that, like what I call like healthy paranoia.
[00:44:04] At all times, like from day one, I was like, this is too good to be true. Like people are just PayPal me money to talk to me about food. And I quit my job and my cell phone got all jacked up for some reason. Like I got kicked off the network and I couldn't text message people. So I'm like, Oh my God, I'm going to have to get a job in a week because everyone's going to be unhappy.
[00:44:24] Then you hire people and you grow and you're like, again, this good stuff doesn't happen to me. It's going to end. But all of that was, like, had me on my guard. I was so, attentive to all the little things, and I'm sure I drove so many people that worked with me absolutely nuts. If we ever had a bad comment in a Facebook group about our company, oh man, like I was like, guys, what's going on?
[00:44:48] And they would be like, Mike, you're a little crazy. And I'm like, but like legit, this is why this happened. Because I'm crazy about this stuff. If I was not crazy and attentive to this stuff, it would be normalized and we wouldn't have the referrals network that we have. So let me be crazy. Just please serve the people well.
[00:45:07] So I know not everybody loves me, but that's completely fine because. after, Jeb and I talk about a lot, like after the stronger you world of these coaches, like when they go off on their own, they have these skills and vast networks that they would have never had. And it's really cool to, it makes me happy to be able to do that for people when Like it's so hard to succeed in this business.
[00:45:30] How many coaches do we know that, even a hundred thousand followers, but seven clients, how do I get clients? I'm like, they're like, should I work for a company? Should I go on my own? It's again, pros and cons to all this stuff.
[00:45:44] Dr Mike T Nelson: Related to the pros and cons, we've got about like 10 minutes or so here, cause I have a hard stop with the role of AI being able to create a bunch of stuff now, like the two part question is one, How do you think that'll change what trainers are actually going to be doing going forward?
[00:46:02] And then the second part of that is, my bias is I think people are going to want to go back to, like we talked about, work with an actual live human. So, like for myself, like I, I guess more or less doubled down on my newsletter and trying to spend more time writing it, trying to hopefully make it a little bit more entertaining.
[00:46:24] Cause I don't think AI is going to replace that at any point. And I think people are one, bored to tears at jobs they hate, and two, I think they're going to want to gravitate more towards back, like we talked about, an actual human that they can relate to.
[00:46:42] Mike Doehla: Again, I think everything depends on who the customers are.
[00:46:45] There's plenty of people that don't give a crap about a human. They just want give me the information. Once it becomes a little normalized to have conversations with, just call it a robot, for lack of a better term, more people are going to adopt it. So, I think there are going to be a lot of coaches who are worked out of jobs because their potential customers are working with AI bots.
[00:47:05] That, that's I don't know if they're up to speed now with, the brain power of someone like you or some other people. I think they can get there. I think people will, the consumer will still have a hard time finding these services. So I think there's a leg up there for coaches. But I think once some of these AI models are just, I don't know the technical terms for all this, so I'll probably butcher it.
[00:47:30] Just say, once they're uploaded with the brains and the content of some of these people they're gonna be just as good and quicker and cheaper. But there are going to be plenty of people who just want human, the human interaction. Whether they're missing that somewhere in life, or they don't know where else to get it, or they do value it completely from the coach, I guess it doesn't matter.
[00:47:53] It's the reality that they will want people. But I think a lot of coaches are very wrong in their assessment that it won't take their jobs. Because it's like my grandma who was like, I don't need to learn the computer. And it's look, grandma, like you, if you were working now and you didn't know like how to create a document, like you're done, you're out.
[00:48:14] So there's a lot of sayings that, well, I don't know who came up with it, but it's AI might not take your job, but someone in this case, a coach or trainer who knows AI will take your job. So I think, and I know Dean. Guido is very big on this. He loves ChatGPT. Yeah, he's the first one who introduced me to it.
[00:48:35] Yeah, you need to start messing with it. I agree with that actually. And don't judge it by you could say, create me a five day strengthening conditioning program to increase my squat bench, deadlift and sprint times, blah, blah, blah. It might give you something decent, but if you're a knowledgeable cold coach, you'll say, oh, that, that program sucks.
[00:48:56] See, this AI is stupid. It's okay, don't use it for that, but plug in. Maybe a difficult situation that you're dealing with a client and it can talk to you. Like it's a COO of a company. Like it can talk to you through all, like I use it to help me like facilitate some of my thoughts about a potential business that I could do one day.
[00:49:20] And I'm like poke holes in this, do this, do that. So You can do all kinds of stuff. You can have Canva like AI stuff. You could do so much with it that if you're not using it now and you're a coach you're going to get lapped by other coaches. So I think there's a lot of possibilities. I think one, there's going to be a lot of people who just want humans.
[00:49:40] So if you don't want AI and you just want to be a human, cool, like maybe you'll be okay if you find the right customers. And there's going to be a lot of coaches that. Adopt the AI infrastructure into their coaching, maybe not answering clients, but Hey AI, I got this situation. What should I do?
[00:49:58] Like I had someone I posted about it. Maybe it's probably a year and a half now. And someone was like, I just don't think you could answer my question if I, my boyfriend's Pressuring me to go out for pizza and beers. So I created the hypothetical question and I was like, and no joke. I was like, this response had more empathy, problem solving, and understanding than most of the coaches.
[00:50:22] I know it was such a good answer. And that was a year and a half ago. Where is it now? Like I think about that. Could I create that when I come back to the industry, if I come back, I just have to find some tech nerds, but then I feel like a jerk if I'm taking clients from my buddies, in the field, but it's who, when I, and I think about this often, I'm like, why did I get into this field?
[00:50:46] Because I wanted to help people eat better. Not because I wanted to keep a bunch of my colleagues happy, like I love all these people, but like the problem is insanely huge right now. The world is getting so unhealthy and we're all really we're not doing a great job. We're doing a good job on an individual level.
[00:51:09] But you run into a lot of coaches that are like, here's what I think will solve this problem, education. And I'm like, you, do you have any idea what's going on upstairs in people's head? Do you know the environment we live in? Do you know how privileged you are to buy your own vegetables? Like the competition is not necessarily all.
[00:51:30] All these other coaches when you're a coach it's look how damn enjoyable it is to not work out and to watch tv and to eat all these foods my god is that enjoyable like that's your competition how do you stop that
[00:51:48] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And I think in the intermediate, I agree, coaches should learn AI, like by all means do as much as you can with it.
[00:51:54] I, it's not something I would say I enjoy using, but I've ever since Dean sent me a quote, he's yeah, you got to check out this chat. GPT is at three or something like that. I was like, ah, I don't know. Yeah, whatever. And he's I bet I could write one of your essays you used to do for when you were teaching.
[00:52:11] I was like, ah, bullshit. But I'm like, ah, let me try it. So I went in there, I took one of the essay questions I had when I was teaching a class a year ago, or I put it in there and I read it and I was like, holy shit. And it
[00:52:26] Mike Doehla: just comes up like instantly. It's instantly.
[00:52:29] Dr Mike T Nelson: The references were wrong. There was definitely huge errors in it, but if you were not a subject matter expert and I didn't know the subject matter and I was just grading it on how it wrote, like I would have given it like a solid B for just typing in one sentence and waiting like 10 seconds.
[00:52:47] I was like, Oh shit.
[00:52:51] Mike Doehla: It's. Extremely impressive. And I think like the grandma example, it's, we're the same, we're the grandpa and grandma right now, a lot of people, and it's just this I'm better than a computer, that computer will never know what I know. And it's what the hell do you even know?
[00:53:07] Like everything, this thing knows also, and is faster than you. And you can teach it to be like, be more empathetic, be more firm, have the personality of this person, that person. Boom. Download all my documents. Find my tone and use my tone. This is what this stuff is capable of. So, I don't know coaches, instead of creating reels for 12 hours a week, maybe learn AI for half that time.
[00:53:39] Dr Mike T Nelson: Yeah. And now I have a question where I'll take a certain amount of Time per week, and I run it through the filter of, could I get AI to do this? And I'll set a little like sand timer on my desk for 10 or 15 minutes. And so the other day I was doing some new questionnaires. So you take a validate, validated questionnaire in the research, but I don't have an online tool of using it yet.
[00:54:00] So I said, Hey, I wonder if AI could create this. So I said, okay, use this survey. Here's the source to use it from. And. It wasn't able to do it, but then I was like, okay, can you print out a list of instructions of how I would do it? And sure enough, it gives you all the questions, it grabs the right source, gives all the questions.
[00:54:18] And so then I took that and sent it to my virtual assistant in India and said, Hey, here's the instructions of how to do this quiz, put it in a Google doc. And so normally in the past, that would have taken me quite a while, or I would have to outsource it to someone, or I'd have to generate the video myself of how to do it.
[00:54:34] So they could replicate it in the future. Like now I literally grab the validated survey. You know spent five minutes on AI and was able to outsource even the instructions of how to do it So it's crazy.
[00:54:47] Mike Doehla: It's wild. It's so cool right now And I think it's you know People are scared of it and would rightfully so who knows what the heck can happen But as of right now, it's like having a bunch of basically free co workers who might know more than you Right by your side.
[00:55:03] Yeah.
[00:55:04] Dr Mike T Nelson: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for all your time and everything. Really appreciate it. Always good to chat. Where can people find more from you if they, if you want to be found? And I know you've got some stuff still on Instagram and social media here and there.
[00:55:17] Mike Doehla: Yeah. Thanks Mike. This is a fun conversation.
[00:55:20] If I want to be found you could come to any local pickleball
[00:55:23] Dr Mike T Nelson: court, right around one in the afternoon.
[00:55:27] Mike Doehla: Yeah. At Mike Dola. On instagram, that's where I usually you know, I go in waves. I'll be like five days straight I'll post some stuff and then i'll be like, I don't feel like typing anything.
[00:55:36] Here's my kids So follow me ask me questions. Like I love answering questions for coaches I don't know at all, but i've seen some stuff and i'm happy to lend you know my ear my brain or whatever you might need and I don't Consult right now or anything so I don't charge any money just ask me a question I'm into messages and i'll get back to you And
[00:55:56] Dr Mike T Nelson: you have a podcast too, correct?
[00:55:58] Mike Doehla: Yeah, Jeb and I have a podcast The Macro and the Mindset. We do episodes when we feel like it, so.
[00:56:04] Dr Mike T Nelson: There you go. When the in between pickleball matches.
[00:56:07] Mike Doehla: Yeah, the mystery is appealing for people.
[00:56:10] Dr Mike T Nelson: Cool. Awesome. Well, thank you for all the wonderful stuff and sharing all your information and yeah, you've been super helpful to me over the years too, so it's always nice to have someone who's been there done that.
[00:56:20] And it goes right back to you, Mike. To ask questions, so. Appreciate it, man. Thank you.
[00:56:23] Mike Doehla: Thanks, guys.
[00:56:24]
[00:56:25] Dr Mike T Nelson: Thank you so much for listening to the podcast. Really appreciate it. Huge thanks to Mike Doehla for coming on the podcast, checking out all the wonderful things he's got going on and retirement life here.
[00:56:36] Make sure to check out the podcast he does. My other good friend, Jeb. some great stuff there. Mike also has some stuff on social media. We'll put links to all of that below. And if you enjoyed this podcast, please forward it to someone or post it up on the old socials. Make sure to tag us so we can say thank you and hit the like button.
[00:56:59] If you can leave us a short review, that goes a long way into getting the podcast, better distribution by helping out the old algorithms there. And thank you so much for listening. We really appreciate it. I'll talk to all of you next week.
[00:57:16] Well, they say all good things come to an end. What's that got to do with this show?
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[00:58:24] Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to therein. If you think you have a medical problem, consult a licensed physician.